Wiring last rose in loop from 2 way. Please Help! WITH pics

[Whimsical]

Hello,
Have ceiling rose on landing fed by 2 way switch (other on ground floor in hall). This is the last in the loop so there is only one line in plus cable from switch.

Have connected the rose in the way shown in the instructions (minus the line out)
http://www.mkelectric.com/Documents...ing Rose Pendants and Batten Lamp Holders.pdf

Neutral from switch to from switch to live on rose
Live from switch to from switch to loop in
Neutral from Line in to live on rose
Live from Line in to loop in

... and alas it trips out.

The neutral at the 2 way switch isn't connected to anything (just crimped to the neutral coming in). Not sure what to make of it!?

It was working until I changed the ceiling rose so the wiring at the switches should be OK. Didn't check how the switch was connected before as couldn't tell what wires where coming from where. Could anyone please advise?

Very, Very much appreciated

 

[Aragorn84]

Neutral from Line in to live on rose

Is that a typo???

 

[securespark]

No, I don't thinks so. That's why it's popping the breaker.

 

[AndyPRK]

I assume you have 2 cables coming in each with a red and black wire ?

Maybe you have got the two mixed up ?

Disconnect the cables and get a test/digital meter/DMM and put it on the continuity mode where it beeps when you touch the two leads together.

With the mains power off, connect the meter leads to red and black. and find which cable beeps when the switch is switched. On the cable that does this put a bit of red tape round the black wire. This wire should be connect to the brown wire to the lamp in the outside LINE terminal.

Connect the two reds together in the loop terminal.

Connect the remaining black wire to blue in N terminal

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Neutral from switch to from switch to live on rose

Could you read that back carefully, out loud, as it is written, not as you think it's written? Or get someone else to read it to you?

Neutral

from

switch

to

from

switch

to

live

on

rose

doesn't make much sense to me, I'm afraid.

Live from switch to from switch to loop in

Ditto.

Neutral from Line in to live on rose
Live from Line in to loop in

Ditto and ditto.

"Neutral from Line in"?

... and alas it trips out.

Somewhere you've decided that if it's black/blue it's a neutral, and it won't be.

The neutral at the 2 way switch isn't connected to anything (just crimped to the neutral coming in). Not sure what to make of it!?

You should learn what switches do, then you'll realise why you wouldn't want the N connected to it.

Are you sure it's a neutral anyway? Earlier you said, possibly, that the neutral is looped at the rose, not the switches.

• http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=electrical+circuits+101
  
  
• http://kevinboone.net/electricity.html
  
  
• http://web.archive.org/web/20080213151445/http://www.kevinboone.com/domesticinstallations.html
  
  
• http://www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:lighting

It was working until I changed the ceiling rose

Presumably it was working before?

And you wanted to install a new rose, but decided not to copy the way it was wired before?

Could you draw a diagram, or post an annotated photo showing what you've done?

 

[bernardgreen]

and find which cable beeps when the switch is switched. and doesn't bleep when the switch is off On the cable that does this put a bit of red tape round the black wire.

It is possible that a false "continuity" will be read on the supply cable if other lights are on ( but not lit as no power )

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I think it would be rather unfortunate if the loop went through other lamps - having to have them all on or none of them, all being very dim etc....

 

[bernardgreen]

The loop obviously doesn't go through the other lamps.

But those lamps are, when their switch is ON, connected across the Live and Neutral of the supply cable. The resistance of a cold lamp filament is low and some multi-meters will show that resistance as "continuity" when the meter is put across the Live and Neutral of the supply cable.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Sorry - see what you mean.

Don't think it will do that with the meter on a proper setting?

And even if it does, the meter continuing to indicate continuity when the switch you are checking is turned off would tend to give the game away....

 

[Whimsical]

Sorry folks, Trying to do too much at once.

Correction as below, Basically the same as the instructions minus the feed out as last in loop

Neutral from switch to live on rose (Line)
Live from switch to Live (Loop)
Neutral from Feed in to Neutral on rose
Live from Feed in to Live (loop) on rose


Like I said it was working fine till I changed the rose... puzzled!?.... Not an electrician but hoping to follow a diagram... but don't have the know how to problem solve.

 

[bernardgreen]

Neutral from switch to live on rose (Line).

The wire from the switch may be blue ( or black ) but it is NOT neutral. It is switched Live and should have a brown ( or red ) sleeve to show this.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Neutral from switch to live on rose (Line)

Neutral and Live connected together, and you're surprised it trips?

Like I said it was working fine till I changed the rose... puzzled!?....

Why are you puzzled?

You decided not to connect it the way it was before - did you really think that it would therefore work as it did before?

Not an electrician but hoping to follow a diagram...

http://www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:lighting

but don't have the know how to problem solve.

One way or another you need to identify which is your switch drop cable.

 

[Whimsical]

"Somewhere you've decided that if it's black/blue it's a neutral, and it won't be"

Yes I did make that assumption... I just assumed that the red/brown from the switch would be live since the blue/black was not connected only passed through... if you know what I mean.

Shall I try it the other way around. connect the red from the switch (what I think to be live) to the line connection? would anything bad happen?

 

[Whimsical]

Neutral from switch to live on rose (Line)

Neutral and Live connected together, and you're surprised it trips?

It's what it says in the instructions.... am I missing something. Starting toi feel (and look ) stupid!

Black/Blue from switch to Line

Red from switch to Loop

 

[bernardgreen]

If there are only two cables ( each with one brown(red) and one blue(black) ) at the rose then it is not totally essential to identify the cable from the switch.

Join the two browns ( or reds ) together in the terminals labelled LOOP

Connect one of the blue ( or blacks ) to one of the wires to the lamp.

Connect the other blue ( or black ) to the other wire to the lamp.

This is very likely to make the lamp work BUT it is not good practise to leave the switched live un-known and un-marked and possibly connected to the blue of the lamp.