dimmable LED downlights

[masamune]

I am looking at fitting dimmable LEDs in the living room. These will be @230V and I was told they have to be fire rated, even though LEDs don't generate much heat?

Do I need to buy specific fitting or will any 230V do?

Any suggestions for what LED spots to buy? Warm light is preferred.

Thanks

 

[Taylortwocities]

You only need fire-rated lights if the ceiling (that you will be making swiss cheese out of) is a fire break. Is it?

My favourite LED fitting are these http://www.gil-lec.co.uk/dimmable-led-downlight-au-frld811-30-aurora-m10-sola-ip65-warm-white

 

[bernardgreen]

Lamps using LED elements and with an integrated driver do produce heat. It depends on how well they are designed and built. Some of the lower cost items produce a surprisingly high amount of heat from the driver and without adequate cooling the LED element(s) are hot enough ( about 70°C ) that they degrade rapidly and fail prematurely.

 

[masamune]

You only need fire-rated lights if the ceiling (that you will be making swiss cheese out of) is a fire break. Is it?

My favourite LED fitting are these http://www.gil-lec.co.uk/dimmable-l...11-30-aurora-m10-sola-ip65-warm-white[/QUOTE]

The ceiling is old plasterboard, I doubt it's a fire break?

Thanks for the link, I noticed the lights are IP65 do I need these for the living room, I thought this was a bathroom requirement.

Another question, is this cost for the dimmable LED spot itself? and is this because of the hardware it requires to be dimmable?

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

You don't need IP65 for living rooms, not unless you have a low ceiling and a log flume in there!
I would always recommend fire-rated lighting if there is living accommodation above. But if the ceiling is not a firebreak then there is no requirement for them. Just because it is old plaster would not lead you to a conclusion whether is/is'nt!

 

[masamune]

You don't need IP65 for living rooms, not unless you have a low ceiling and a log flume in there!
I would always recommend fire-rated lighting if there is living accommodation above. But if the ceiling is not a firebreak then there is no requirement for them. Just because it is old plaster would not lead you to a conclusion whether is/is'nt!

How can I define whether it is a fire break or not?

The electrician is anal about standards and asked me to buy only fire resistant spots.

 

[pjcomp]

Rule of thumb - if you're in a flat then your dwelling place should be a self-contained firebox, ie if your flat catches fire it should be contained long enough so it doesn't spread to other flats before it can be put out. So in that case your ceilings should meet fire-resistant standards, and any holes you put in them (for downlighters, for instance) should be plugged with somethig equally fire-resistant.

If you live in a house, there's usually a great big fireway called a staircase, so fireproof ceilings don't help a lot.

pj

 

[masamune]

Rule of thumb - if you're in a flat then your dwelling place should be a self-contained firebox, ie if your flat catches fire it should be contained long enough so it doesn't spread to other flats before it can be put out. So in that case your ceilings should meet fire-resistant standards, and any holes you put in them (for downlighters, for instance) should be plugged with somethig equally fire-resistant.

If you live in a house, there's usually a great big fireway called a staircase, so fireproof ceilings don't help a lot.

pj

Ok that answers my question, it's a house

 

[Taylortwocities]

Usually, a fire-resistant ceiling has a double layer of plasterboard, or is constructed of special fireline plasterboard (pink).

Most houses do not have this unless it is the ceiling of an integrated garage.

I think you are missing the point of fire-rated products.

A ceiling that is constructed as a fire break will resist the passage of fire for a period but the downlight holes provide a nice path for the flames. Fire rated downlights have special material that plugs the hole if there is a fire.

The fire rate fitting is there to stop the passage of fire between teh floors, through the ceiling. It has nothing to do with how hot the fitting is.

PS the link for the M10 fittings is for the whole integrated unit. This is a much better solution than buying separate downlights and LED lamps.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I think you are missing the point of fire-rated products.

I fear that so is his electrician, along with whether the room is a fire compartment or not and what downlighter holes do to the fire performance of a 30 minute ceiling.

 

[masamune]

Usually, a fire-resistant ceiling has a double layer of plasterboard, or is constructed of special fireline plasterboard (pink).

Most houses do not have this unless it is the ceiling of an integrated garage.

I think you are missing the point of fire-rated products.

A ceiling that is constructed as a fire break will resist the passage of fire for a period but the downlight holes provide a nice path for the flames. Fire rated downlights have special material that plugs the hole if there is a fire.

Thanks for clarifying this point.

In case of the bathroom, what IP rating would be the most suitable since water/moisture is involved?

PS the link for the M10 fittings is for the whole integrated unit. This is a much better solution than buying separate downlights and LED lamps.

I see what you mean, then you can probably use a different fascia on the external fitting of the unit.

 

[Taylortwocities]

In case of bathroom, what IP rating would be the most suitable since water/moisture is involved?

It depends on the zone. Info in the WIKI at http://www.diynot.com/wiki/Electrics:bathroom_zones

I see what you mean, then you can probably use a different fascia on the external fitting of the unit.

Its clear in the product description. Quote
The M10 is supplied without the front bezel (pic1), which is purchased separately and available in white (pic3), satin nickel (pic4) and polished chrome (pic 5). Pic 2 shows the M10 fitted with the satin nickel bezel.

 

[masamune]

It depends on the zone. Info in the WIKI at http://www.diynot.com/wiki/Electrics:bathroom_zones[/QUOTE]

Very helpful. The downlights are going to be on a ceiling 2.5m from the floor, does that make it an "outside zone"?

The installer has bought some IP20 lights but I don't feel this is sufficient.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Why did you start this topic if the installer is making the choice for you?

If you READ the WIKI item you will see that, at 2.5metres, your ceiling is out side the zones. BUT the IP rating is only part of the story.

The lights, and their insytallatioon, also have to comply with Building Regulations. In this case, Part C is mosf relavent as it deals with the passage of moisture.
The lights MUST stop steam being drawn into the loft area, otherwise the damp will sit on your roof timbers, which will rot over time.

OR, the installer could fit a loftcap over each fitting, like this
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/TLALC274.html
but then, you may as well get a proper downlight, like the M10. (PS I do not work for the company. Other downlights are available)

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Bear in mind that IPxx refers to access and moisture penetration to the electrical connections, and there is no reason why an IP65 light should necessarily do anything to prevent water vapour getting through to the other side of the ceiling. As an extreme example (unrealistic, but it shows the point), you could take a light suitable for use on the helicopter deck of a destroyer, mount it in the boss of a cartwheel, and then mount that in a 4' hole in a ceiling. The light would still be IP<whatever>, but wouldn't stop water vapour getting through....