Paid breaks?

[cjard]

My builder dropped a comment today about his hourly rate and expectation to be paid to take breaks - his rate was 20 an hour, and his idea of £160 day was 8 til 430 with half an hour for lunch and 2 breaks of 15 minutes each. When I queried why I'm paying him to sit on his ass for half an hour he said it was legal stipulation that he's entitled to a paid break of 15 minutes for every 4 hour block he works..

..somewhat different to my office job, where I'm expected to work in 2 stints of 4 hours to make an 8 hour day and whatever I take as lunch (my only break) is completely unpaid. If I start at 8, take a 3 hour lunch then I must finish at 7 and I get paid for 8 hours work.

Is there something different about the building industry or is this guy just taking the mick, doing 7.5 hours and expecting to be paid for 8?

 

[Newboy]

I'd consider finding a new job or a better employer

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

It's a perfectly valid point, I work in an office, I'm paid for the hours I work not for my lunch break. It's standard office working practice, getting paid for lunch indeed!

AFAIK whilst an employee is entitled to certain breaks their not entitled to be paid for. Certainly odd times I've been self employed rather than on the books I've never been paid for breaks.

 

[^woody^]

He's confused on employment rights, so is he equally confused on building work?

If he was directly employed, he is entitled to breaks, but not entitled to paid breaks.

If he is self employed, then he can work all day, or pay himself whatever he likes for his own breaks. But that's non of your concern, as you only pay him for working.

He sounds like a complete div and I've never even met him!

 

[Newboy]

Just out of interest do either of you get paid holidays and paid when you're off ill?

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Holidays and sickness benefits are different. Have a read up of basic employment legislation. If you're self employed your hourly rate reflects that, if it doesn't then you're charging too little or your no good and you can't justify how much you think you're worth, come on get real.

 

[^woody^]

What are these holidays which you speak of?

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

I guess if you're not successful then you have to compromise somewhere.

 

[big-all]

by employment law if you are an employee you are entitled to 2x15 min breaks for an 8 hour day and i think a further 20 mins if more than 10 but that bit may be out off date
if he is the boss then he should be deducting break time from his working day
the best compromise is expect to loose about 15 mins a day on average as they eat and work

 

[^woody^]

But what kind of builder turns up on a job like this, and starts dictating what breaks he is having?

Get in, get the job done and then get out and on to the next job. If that means having 15 minutes for dinner and working till 6 PM, then that's it.

 

[cjard]

What can I say, I wish he had your work ethic woody. It's a complex politic, employing family. He said his rate would be between 15 and 25 depending on what he was doing. I said we'd start at 15 and go from there. It attracts constant complaint that he's being taken advantage of and how he's worth so much more - yet he seems to fail to take into account that I pay all the bills/utilities and internet on site (where I let him live rent free), he has a 30 second walk to work (literally out the front door), I put diesel in my truck, tax and insure it for him to use and I buy the tools/consumables. With no mortgage, no kids, no pets and no dependants, his life costs literally nothing and his earnings are 100% disposable income

This latest revelation, that he wants a tenner a day (by my calcs £2500 a working year, or more than 1% of my total build budget) for sitting on his ass eating is just a small straw on the camel's back but it's sometimes the smallest of things that make one feel most taken advantage of. I'm also mighty ****ed off that the labourer (another family member) said he put in a "full day" yesterday, doing 1030 til 530, yet when I called in at site at 1330 having left a long list of instructions on exactly what materials needed to be stacked and tidied where, all that had happened was 3 tons bags were laid out with approx 10 offcuts of insulation/scrap wood in each. I know he doesn't get paid a lot, but for 3 hours work (or is it 2 hours and a paid ass sit?) that's not exactly stellar

Ey well, bitching about it on an internet forum ain't gonna solve it (but it's mighty handy to know what thoughts others actively employed in the current construction industry have, when assessing whether i'm being unreasonable) so it might be frank discussion time

 

[b21playa]

Never employ family

 

[cjard]

Amen! This is kinda a special case, charity case I guess you could say - for various sad reasons neither of these two have had a useful working output for many years and something was needed to get them off the couch and engaged with life.. I'm not specifically complaining, having forged the rod, but as mentioned it's nice to know where I am on the scale of "taking the mick" vs "having the mick taken"

 

[^woody^]

Well that's the thing. If you are helping somebody out then you give them a £50 bung in a list of tasks for the day. You're not really employing them, so they should not be expecting employment wages.

 

[joe-90]

The only thing that really matters is whether he's putting value on the house. At the moment I'm getting paid for 10 grands worth of work and putting 35 grand on the value of the house. Who cares what breaks I choose to take?