We're you brought up in the USA? Here brown is line or live not hot. Blue is neutral not not. Anyway these colours apply to appliance cords. Fixed wiring in houses can be other colours, red and black for older installations, and then there are switched wires to consider.
2 way light switch
- Thread starter stuart hill
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We're you brought up in the USA? Here brown is line or live not hot. Blue is neutral not not. Anyway these colours apply to appliance cords. Fixed wiring in houses can be other colours, red and black for older installations, and then there are switched wires to consider.
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Not these days.
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no, born in uk, was told that rhyme over 50 years ago, it was taught to apprentice sparkies at the then park gate iron and steel company in rotherham south yorkshire. stuart.
Strange, 50 years ago in 1965, we were still using red, black, green even for appliance cords. The brown, blue, green/yellow came in around 1969/70.
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yes you are correct, senior moment, it was probably some time in the seventies, i worked there myself 71 to81 and it had become british steel. hope this clears it up.stuart.
When you started in 1971 that was right around the time of the change to the new brown/blue in flexes, hence the little aide memoire you learned (never heard that one before, but it does the trick well enough). The colors for fixed wiring in the U.K. changed only about a decade ago.
By the way, the use of green/yellow instead of plain green for earth was sanctioned a few years earlier as it was already in use on the Continent. Although it wasn't all that common, there were some flexes made in the late 1960's period which combined red & black with a green/yellow earth.
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many thanks for your input which confirms date of change of wiring, been on various forums over the years football, gardening etc, but never experinced hostility or pickiness of getting dates wrong etc, im sure there are helpful and friendly people on this site, but as for being asked to nominate this site for web site of the year, sorry no. stuart.
Over the weekend found a 2 gang plate at my daughter's new house with teminals marked B, B1 and B2 B was the common, and the previous owner ( or his "electricain" ) had wired the two way circuit in correctly.
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many thanks to everyone for your kind help. stuart.
And although it seems to be site policy that this observation should not be made:
Nobody who actually understood what 2-way switches do, and was actually competent to fiddle with them and therefore should actually have been fiddling with them, would have made that mistake. They would not make that mistake if the terminals had no labels at all.
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When I was first taught 2 way lighting this
was the way we were taught. Yes it works but if one tried to wire this way likely one would get mains hum on radios etc. So as electricians we wire using this
method with is better suited when using cables rather than singles. It is hardly surprising that people leave school thinking they know how a two way lighting system works then when they try and use the knowledge find it does not work that way.
I am afraid schools don't seem to have improved. I was looking at an Advanced level text book not just ordinary level which included a diagram of how a fluorescent lamp worked. They had totally missed out the ballast which would mean as soon as the starter operated the heaters they would blow and if it did strike then there was nothing to limit the current. This is not a individual teacher getting it wrong this is an examination board commissioning a book to be written, and all the proof readers missing the error and all the teachers missing the error and not writing into the board with corrections or the board completely ignoring all the feed back telling them of the error.
It is harder to unlearn than to learn, we see this with changes with BS7671 where new students get better marks taking C&G2382 then old electricians who had previously passed C&G2381.
The whole idea of being taught something in school which when you arrive in university are then told to forget that it's all wrong is flawed. It would be better if never taught in the first place. In my day at 16 one left school and went on to do an apprenticeship which was still schooling but showing one the correct way not a method which then has to be forgotten. I am all in favour of schooling until 18 but not in favour to that schooling to be restricted to academic institutions students should be allowed to leave school and attend work place learning.
But while students are forced to learn how to pass things like the "A" level exam in academic institutions who teach incorrect methods there will always be people who think they know how to do something but in reality do have the skills required. In a class of 14 Physics "A" level students 10 ruptured the fuses in the multi-meters by trying to measure voltage with current range selected. The 4 who didn't make the error were adults which clearly shows errors in teaching methods.
I am afraid schools don't seem to have improved. I was looking at an Advanced level text book not just ordinary level which included a diagram of how a fluorescent lamp worked. They had totally missed out the ballast which would mean as soon as the starter operated the heaters they would blow and if it did strike then there was nothing to limit the current. This is not a individual teacher getting it wrong this is an examination board commissioning a book to be written, and all the proof readers missing the error and all the teachers missing the error and not writing into the board with corrections or the board completely ignoring all the feed back telling them of the error.
It is harder to unlearn than to learn, we see this with changes with BS7671 where new students get better marks taking C&G2382 then old electricians who had previously passed C&G2381.
The whole idea of being taught something in school which when you arrive in university are then told to forget that it's all wrong is flawed. It would be better if never taught in the first place. In my day at 16 one left school and went on to do an apprenticeship which was still schooling but showing one the correct way not a method which then has to be forgotten. I am all in favour of schooling until 18 but not in favour to that schooling to be restricted to academic institutions students should be allowed to leave school and attend work place learning.
But while students are forced to learn how to pass things like the "A" level exam in academic institutions who teach incorrect methods there will always be people who think they know how to do something but in reality do have the skills required. In a class of 14 Physics "A" level students 10 ruptured the fuses in the multi-meters by trying to measure voltage with current range selected. The 4 who didn't make the error were adults which clearly shows errors in teaching methods.
Surely the main reason for wiring it that way is that usually one wants a switch drop cable going to one of the switches, not permanent live to one and switched live out from the other?So as electricians we wire using this
method with is better suited when using cables rather than singles.
Another circuit is
Useful if there are several circuits and the top switches ( the ones with the Live and Neutral feed ) are to be grouped close together ( for example in a grid switch panel )
Or you could also use the "conventional" method and go through the two switches and have the light at the end of the run by using triple between the switches. That also avoids the problem of induced fields by keeping both current-carrying conductors together throughout.
Would that not be the conversion (modern) method?
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