I'm afraid the only correct answer is no, it has been left in a dangerous condition by bypassing a safety device which was functioning as intended. I would like to be able to tell you otherwise, but the facts do not allow me to do so.
Some sockets not working?
- Thread starter blackcloud
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I'm certainly not infallible, so I'd be grateful if you could direct me to the "stated facts" which indicate that the RCD had "obviously" been bypassed.
Kind Regards, John
Leaving the OP with no heating or hot water on a very cold day? I'm sure we all agree that what was done was not ideal, but idealism sometimes has to give way to pragmatism.
Kind Regards, John
Most important for the OP- this is for the landlord to repair, and quickly. OP has muddied water slightly by calling in someone (at his/her own expense) to work on the installation, the landlord could (if he/she was a Rachman type) make all sorts of capital out of that. You (as the tenant) don't get to make decisions about who works on the installation, it is the landlords' duty to ensure that the installation is safe and appropriate. If you haven't done so already you really must get onto your local councils' environmental health team (or if they have a dedicated operation for policing private tenancies then work through them) and get them to put pressure on your landlord.
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Thanks for the replies.
The landlord said if ever there was an emergency and they coukdnt help that I should call an emergency person whatever the fault maybe. So I had to get someone out as it was an emergency, how could I have stayed living in freezing cold, no hot water etc etc for who knows how long before the letting agents got someone out to repair it, if at all.
I just called a registered electrician on the niceic.com and explained the situation to him and he said he would do a insulation resistance test using 200 volts which would show where the fault was ie it could be behind a wall or somewhere else. Not sure if I should do this or wait for the letting agents to send someone out which may not happen. Or I can get the council to put pressure on them.
The landlord said if ever there was an emergency and they coukdnt help that I should call an emergency person whatever the fault maybe. So I had to get someone out as it was an emergency, how could I have stayed living in freezing cold, no hot water etc etc for who knows how long before the letting agents got someone out to repair it, if at all.
I just called a registered electrician on the niceic.com and explained the situation to him and he said he would do a insulation resistance test using 200 volts which would show where the fault was ie it could be behind a wall or somewhere else. Not sure if I should do this or wait for the letting agents to send someone out which may not happen. Or I can get the council to put pressure on them.
I shall probably get shot down but I can see both sides of the argument, here.
However -
Is it actually the purpose - or just an unfortunate consequence - that RCDs disconnect the supply because of a small IR fault in, say, a heating element or because of water?
They are primarily for personal protection, after all.
It's not like an MCB has been by-passed and this will still disconnect a dangerous fault.
Had there been no RCD then all would have continued happily, albeit obliviously.
However -
Is it actually the purpose - or just an unfortunate consequence - that RCDs disconnect the supply because of a small IR fault in, say, a heating element or because of water?
They are primarily for personal protection, after all.
It's not like an MCB has been by-passed and this will still disconnect a dangerous fault.
Had there been no RCD then all would have continued happily, albeit obliviously.
As stated, it is really for your landlord to deal with this (urgently!) but I would certainly always advocate selecting a contractor enrolled with the NICEIC Approved Contractor Scheme.
Not so. A neutral/earth fault can be a cause of fire.
That sounds fair enough, then. Did the landlord say that he would pay for the emergency person if you had to call one?
Have you also informed the landlord (and/or letting agent) of the problem? If you haven't, you should, and if.when you have, and don't get a response quickly, I would tell him/them that you intend to involve "the authorities" (as per oldbutnotdead's suggestion).
Kind Regards, John
Certaintly not by me!
Indeed. I nearly made that point myself but, like you, wanted to avoid getting 'shot down'!
Kind Regards, John
I would struggle to imagine how. Indeed, if one disconnected all the neutrals and, instead, used the CPCs as the return paths, I wouldn't expect a fire risk. CPCs are, admittedly, lower in CSA than neutrals, but (given safety margins etc.) not to the extent of presenting a fire risk if they carried the full 'neutral' current..
In any event, if, due to multiple faults, enough current was flowing in CPCs (and L) to represent a fire risk, one would expect an OPD to operate - after all, that's what they're for.
Kind Regards, John
That lets you off the hook then (as long as you've got some sort of record to prove you did try and contact the letting agent/landlord, if it was by text then make sure you preserve the messages). Don't forget to send him the bill- unless you've got a very odd lease it is landlords' problem to resolve not yours
Call the letting agent (follow it with an email again for evidence purposes), tell them what you've told us here and that there is a fault that needs urgent rectification. Give them a time of day when they can get into the place to do the work. While you're waiting for them to send someone, get onto the council and find out what process they would want you to follow in the event that no-one turns up from letting agent in a reasonable timeframe (like a day or so). Stop calling electricians- not your house, not your problem to deal with.
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Yes letting agents said they would pay for the emergency person if I had to call one and they couldnt help.
Yes letting agents have been informed every step of the way and I have told them first before doing anything.
What do you all think of the insulation resistance test using 200 volts?
Fair enough but, as I said, if they do nothing soon, tell them taht you will be involving the authorities.
Should be 500V.
Kind Regards, John
Many circuits may now be using the fault as a return path. This won't be seen by the protective devices (apart from an RCD - this has been bypassed though - and even if it hypothetically hadn't been (pretending that we are talking about a different installation for a minute) may have been disabled by the fault).
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