Some sockets not working?

[JohnW2]

Many circuits may now be using the fault as a return path.

I don't really get that. Let's face it, at least in a TN-C-S installation the neutral of other (intact) circuits would be connected through an extremely low impedance path to 'earth' very close to the CU - so I would expect that the proportion of 'return current' that would travel through the circuitous 'parallel path' via the Rn+R2 of the circuit with a fault (and hence back to the MET) would usually be minuscule.

Am I missing something?

Kind Regards, John

 

[Echo the husky]

It could be the entire installations current if the main neutral was disconnected/loose after the cutout.

 

[JohnW2]

It could be the entire installations current if the main neutral was disconnected/loose after the cutout.

I think the barrel is being rather scraped ....

Well, yes, but you're now postulating a much more serious fault co-incidental with an N-E fault in one of the final circuits!

In any event, if the "main neutral were disconnected after the cutout", then none of the circuits would be working at all unless/until one of them co-incidentally developed an N-E fault!

Kind Regards, John

 

[Echo the husky]

I thought we were talking about an N-E fault and no RCD! Anyway I'm off to look at an RCD tripping at a friends house, I'll be sure to take a pair of wire links with me so I can bypass the RCD!

 

[JohnW2]

I thought we were talking about an N-E fault and no RCD!

We were - but we weren't also talking about a simultaneously disconnected neutral at the cutout

In the absence of that disconnected (or even just loose) main neutral (very unlikley as a co-incidental fault!), I still don't follow Risteard's argument that an N-E fault on a final circuit (with no RCD to clear it) could create a significant fire risk - do you??

Kind Regards, John

 

[Risteard]

I'll be sure to take a pair of wire links with me so I can bypass the RCD!

Dig the new breed!

 

[Echo the husky]

I've seen it happen once! I'll tell the story after I've sorted the fault!

 

[blackcloud]

What do you all recommend I do now? What if the landlord doesn'th get someone to come round to fix it? should I just goto the council and get them to pressure him to fix it or to get it done myself by an electrician if he doesn't?
What do I need to ensure the next electrician does or make sure what equipment he needs to have when he visits.

 

[JohnW2]

What do you all recommend I do now? What if the landlord doesn'th get someone to come round to fix it? should I just goto the council and get them to pressure him to fix it or to get it done myself by an electrician if he doesn't?

If the landlord/letting agent don't do something very soon, I think you should speak to the council and ask for their advice.

What do I need to ensure the next electrician does or make sure what equipment he needs to have when he visits.

I know that it doesn't help you very much, but any 'proper' electrician ought to have both the knowledge and equipment to do the job.

Kind Regards, John

 

[oldbutnotdead]

What do you all recommend I do now? What if the landlord doesn'th get someone to come round to fix it? should I just goto the council and get them to pressure him to fix it or to get it done myself by an electrician if he doesn't?
What do I need to ensure the next electrician does or make sure what equipment he needs to have when he visits.

Give the bloke a chance- have you sent the email suggested yet? If not then send it. The landlord/letting agent may suggest that you get the work done and send them the bill- avoid that option, if you take it (a) you might be waiting a while for your cash (b) any future problems with the wiring potentially become your problem because you got x in to do the work, he must have broken something etc etc.

A reasonable landlord would get someone in to assess the job within the next 48 hours- if yours can't give you a date and time before the end of this week when anyone will attend then get onto environmental health, play a bit dumb & tell them the emergency electrician told you the installation was in a dangerous state, landlord not taking it seriously etc etc and see where that gets you.

Stop worrying about what the electrician will or won't do- it isn't your house, you don't need the aggro.

And for the future, use this link http://www.checkmynotification.com/ to check if any notifiable work has actually been notified

 

[JohnW2]

Give the bloke a chance- .... A reasonable landlord would get someone in to assess the job within the next 48 hours- if yours can't give you a date and time before the end of this week ....

I may be misunderstanding, but the OP recently wrote:

Yes letting agents have been informed every step of the way and I have told them first before doing anything.

I realise that the situation has been confused by weekends and bank holidays but the original OP implies that this sage has already been going on for at least 4-5 days - so, if the letting agent has been "informed at every step" during that period, they've already had a fair bit of time.

If it were me, I think I would probably speak to the letting agent and/or landlord tomorrow and, unless they indicate that something is going to happen very soon, then speak to the council immediately ... and, regardless of what they say, do as you suggest, if necessary (speak to the council if no-one has turned up by Friday).

Kind Regards, John

 

[blackcloud]

Yes thats right, every step of the way the letting agents has been informed immediately.
So the issue began on Friday last week and I informed letting agents right away. I had a guy who I know whos an electrician and he called the letting agents Saturday morning to try and get through to them and the letting agencts allow him to come and have a look and he couldnt fix anything when he arrived on Saturday. Then Sunday the switch wouldnt stay up this time and contacted letting agents who wouldnt help so then had to get an emergency electrician who came over Sunday 8pm and did what he did and the electric has not turned off once since then. I spoke to the letting agents yesterday who said they will have someone come round to fix the issue ie the 8 broken sockets and fault whereever it is soon. Although saying that and it happening is something different as their electrician is very unreliable and made a very poor job of the wiring in the property which is what has caused this problem.
So I will wait a couple of days for the letting agents to get their guy here, if he doesnt arrive I will get a quailifed electrican in or if he doesnt fix it then I will give him another couple of days to fix it and then will have to get a quailifed electrican in to fix the issue, if necessary.

 

[333rocky333]

Am i the only one confused, if he only bypassed an rcd, why are 6 sockets still not working, if a cables broke as he says, then it would surely need to have been a radial circuit, it would not have taken long to megger and isolate the section of faulty cable, and leave the rcd in place.

If it was a ring, i do not see how you could lose 6 sockets, unless some dodgy spurring from spurs, in that event I would have still located the fault and maybe made 2 temporary radials from 1 mcb, utilising a lower rating non important mcb if needbe.
Seems like someone doing out of hours callouts without a meggar or knowledge of faultfinding.
Im with risteard on this one, dont sound like hes cleared any fault before removing it, another unrelated problem could occur where that rcd could make a difference, god forbid.

 

[JohnW2]

So I will wait a couple of days for the letting agents to get their guy here, if he doesnt arrive I will get a quailifed electrican in or if he doesnt fix it then I will give him another couple of days to fix it and then will have to get a quailifed electrican in to fix the issue, if necessary.

As oldbutnotdead keeps saying, if you can possibly avoid it I don't think you should become involved in any more "getting an electrician in". The mere threat that you are going to speak to the council could well cause letting agent and/or landlord to get their finger out, since they're unlikely to want the aggro of council involvement - that's why I suggested that you speak to him, and issue that 'threat' tomorrow.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Am i the only one confused, if he only bypassed an rcd, why are 6 sockets still not working ....

No, you're not the only one. However, the situation is so confused (and clearly 'very wrong') that there seems no doubt that a competent electrician needs to get on the case very soon.

Im with risteard on this one, dont sound like hes cleared any fault before removing it, another unrelated problem could occur where that rcd could make a difference, god forbid.

No-one can disagree with Risteard's theoretical argument and, as I've said, I imagine that we all regard what has been done as 'less than ideal'. However, as I've asked Risteard, pragmatically, what would you have done if you had been on-site on Saturday? Assuming that you were unable to fairly quickly diagnose the problem, would you have left the OP with no heating or hot water (until, it seems, at least Wednesday), or would you have perhaps returned on New Year's Day and/or the bank holiday to try to get to the bottom of it?

As I've been arguing, although not theoretically impossible, the chances of something catastrophic happening as a result of the bypassed RCD must be extremely small - and obviously no different from whatever risk would have existed had the RCD not been there in the first place (in which case the OP might well not even have been aware of any problem).

Kind Regards, John