Some sockets not working?

[JohnW2]

He said he will come back today (monday) I presume to replace the faulty RCD.

OK, that's fair enough, particularly if he does replace the RCD. That may cure your RCD trips, but will not do anything for your non-working sockets.

A compression faulty, ie a wire has been compressed for so long ie under a carpet that it no longer functions properly. He said he couldnt locate the compression fault he just said the because of the reading were so high that indicated a compression fault (I think he said something like that.)

So he determined that a cable is damaged, but does not know where, and hence can only be guessing as to the nature of the damage. It would be very unusual for a cable to travel "under the carpet". Do you know what circuit this cable belongs to - is it the faulty sockets circuit? Maybe he'll look further into this when he returns today.

Keep us posted!

Kind Regards, John

 

[blackcloud]

So he determined that a cable is damaged, but does not know where, and hence can only be guessing as to the nature of the damage.

correct.

Do you know what circuit this cable belongs to - is it the faulty sockets circuit? Maybe he'll look further into this when he returns today.

I think he said its the circut which some of the working bedroom sockets are on, as when he tried a toaster in those sockets it tripped the electrics. But when he tried the toaster on the kitchen electrics the toaster stayed on and didnt trip the electrics. So I think the non working sockets are on the ciricut which has some of the working bedroom sockets which the toaster trips. Unless there are 3 circuts ie the one for kitchen, one for a bunch of other sockets in the house, and another circut for the rest of the sockets in the house? WHat do you think?

 

[oldbutnotdead]

I think I'd have tested the toaster first to make sure it didn't have some sort of random fault. The nature of the damage sounds like a N-E fault, pinning down exactly where it is will be time-consuming (but if the place has been recently rewired shouldn't be a nightmare) and importantly locating the fault won't involve pulling any walls apart. Fixing it might..... It does sound as if he brought some sort of meter to the job, though a compression fault is a new one on me.

And as for what power circuits you have- there might be 3 ring finals in the place (setup I've got- kitchen, downstairs, upstairs) and there might not. You don't really care, it is the landlord's problem and through him the electricians' problem to resolve while causing you minimum loss of amenity.

I can't tell from you pics what rating the MCBs in your consumer unit are- rough guide 6A or 10A will be for lighting, 16A or 20A will usually be a radial power circuit (immersion heater or boiler or that sort of thing but could be several sockets), 32A will usually be a ring final, 40A or 45A will usually be a shower. If you're curious, go have a look and see what you've got

 

[JohnW2]

I think he said its the circut which some of the working bedroom sockets are on, as when he tried a toaster in those sockets it tripped the electrics. But when he tried the toaster on the kitchen electrics the toaster stayed on and didnt trip the electrics. So I think the non working sockets are on the ciricut which has some of the working bedroom sockets which the toaster trips. Unless there are 3 circuts ie the one for kitchen, one for a bunch of other sockets in the house, and another circut for the rest of the sockets in the house? WHat do you think?

The RCD trips and non-working sockets are probably/presumably two different issues. If the electrician is right that one of the RCDs (I guess the one that keeps tripping) is faulty, then those trips will probably go away when he replaces the RCD. The not-working sockets are presumably something to do with a fault in the wiring (which may or may not be a fault of the type the electrician has suggested) - and it remains for him to actually locate and rectify that fault.

Kind Regards, John

 

[blackcloud]

Do you think its safe to have the boiler plugged in via an extension cable as the plug the boiler normally is connected to is one of the ones that are not working?

 

[oldbutnotdead]

Do you think its safe to have the boiler plugged in via an extension cable as the plug the boiler normally is connected to is one of the ones that are not working?

Yep, not a problem electrically, just make sure the extension cable doesn't become a trip hazard or get nipped by a door closing or stuff like that.

 

[blackcloud]

UPDATE
Well the last electrician who came out as I mentioned said he had isolated the faulty circuit and it shouldnt trip anymore but he said he left the RCD on though so it was safe...
Anyhow its started to trip again!!! I dont know why as its the main breaker thats tripping and none of the location smaller breakers are tripping? Maybe its like he said the its either a faulty RCD box or a fault in a wire somewhere or both. So tonight I kept having to flip it back up all the time!!! 10 times, would only stay on for 2 mins. So then I unplugged everything and only plugged in the fridge and the boiler and guess what, the electric stayed on!!! SO I have left unplugged the computer, washing machine, TV, lamp as they were the only other things that were using electric other than the lights. And since I have kept all those things unplugged other than the boiler and fridge the electric hasnt tripped. Do you think one of the appliances I have no unplugged is causing the electric to trip? and if so why was it tripping when nothing was being just plugged in or turned back on??? Could it still be for instance a faulty washing machine or socket thats causing it to trip even though none of those things are just being plugged in or turned on and its only the main breaker none of the smaller area breakers are flipping?

Also how can I find a reputable 24 hour electrician? I have looked at these websites but theres no way of stipulating a 24 electrication?
http://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/find-an-electrician/

http://www.niceic.com

http://www.electricalcompetentperson.co.uk

 

[oldbutnotdead]

Are you still messing about trying to solve the landlords' wiring issues?.

About the only useful thing you can do here is get all your portable kit PAT tested (yes i know the Tested is already in the TLA). Don't test any of the landlords' property.

Provided all your gear passes, get back onto the landlord and tell them electrics still not working. If he (or electrician) tries to tell you something of yours is causing a problem, give them a copy of your test certs.

The fixed wiring in the property is nothing to do with you and not your problem.

 

[oldbutnotdead]

For your information, the 'main' breaker (RCD) and the smaller MCBs are designed to protect you and the house wiring in 2 different ways.

An MCB will trip if the current passing through it exceeds a preset value (related to but not exactly the number printed on the front of it). They'll also sometimes trip if there is a very rapid change in the current flowing through the MCB.

An RCD will trip if the current passing through the LIVE conductor doesn't match the current returning through the NEUTRAL conductor. The thinking here is that if current is going missing then it will be going somewhere undesirable so best shut it off.

Switching off an MCB doesn't isolate the circuit- the neutral and earth are still connected to their respective points. In many installations there is enough induced voltage on the neutral that connecting it to earth will trip an RCD (this can happen with the MCB in the OFF position). Poorly wired installations (borrowed neutrals anyone) are another matter.

If the electrician truly had isolated the faulty circuit then they would have disconnected all conductors at the consumer unit, not just dropped the MCB. So either they haven't isolated fully or there's another fault. NONE OF WHICH IS YOUR PROBLEM- if the RCD is tripping with none of your personal kit plugged in then exclusively LANDLORD'S PROBLEM. DO NOT get involved with selecting electricians, paying them then getting cash back from landlord or any other nonsense like that. If YOU call an electrician in and that electrician is an idiot or a bodger who manages to burn the place down, who do you think is going to be held responsible? Not the landlord that's for sure, bodger will head for the hills and you'll be left holding the baby.

 

[blackcloud]

Thanks for the reply.

I am not messing around with the electrics other than just flipping up the RCD which I believe is ok to do as the tenant. I am not calling anyone out either unless I get the landlords permission first. They said if I need an emergency electrican and I know a good one then I can call one but only if I get their permission first so I want to find one to keep on my phone whos a good one just incase. So can anyone help me with finding a reputable electrician whos 24 hours a day?

There have been 3 electricans out now who spents days and hours in the property. They have all said its either a faulty RCD box or a faulty cable somewhere or most likely BOTH! None of them could find the faulty wire though. I'm trying to figure out what the issue is though, without touching anything I shouldnt.

Now its only the RCD is the only thing tripping. Now I unplugged everything!!!! and turned on the RCD and then plugged everything back in and everything was fine for 2 mins. I had a sit down and waited. Then without doing anything it tripped AGAIN!!! this happened 5 times.
So then I thought well I will leave the washing machine unplugged this time and guess what it hasnt tripped in 7 hours now....???
Could the washing machine or the washing machine cables be tripping the RCD even though it doesnt trip it as soon as its plugged in?

 

[crystal ball]

Have you typed 24 hour electricians into google, I did and it came up with quite a few, mainly in the larger towns and cities, alternatively you could ring a local wholesaler, they might know who does call outs

 

[oldbutnotdead]

Yes any appliance could have that effect (plug it in, 2 mins later RCD pings), especially stuff with motors and/or electronics (thus capacitors) in. If the RCD stays in with nothing plugged in to any sockets then the fault could still be transposed wires in a socket somewhere or a faulty socket but is more likely (assuming the installation was working fine and then stopped working with no work done on it) a faulty appliance.

Your landlord may think he's doing you a favour (and you may think you're helping yourself) but getting involved in calling people out to fix things isn't one of your responsibilities as a tenant. If you call an electrician out (even with landlords' permission) then you're on the hook for paying said electrician- landlord could determine that they were too expensive. You're still opening yourself up to liability for their actions as well- how much due diligence are you doing on your callout electricians? (Are they a bloke with a van, if they're trading under a company name is the company registered, are their qualifications and scheme memberships genuine).

If the washing machine came with the property then it isn't your problem to fix it. If the RCD stays in with the washer unplugged and everything else plugged in and working then try plugging something else into the washing machine socket (that has been working elsewhere in the house). If the RCD pings then that socket is suspect. If it doesn't then the washing machine is suspect. Call landlord, tell him what you found, tell him to get it fixed ASAP. That is one of your rights as a tenant.

 

[blackcloud]

how much due diligence are you doing on your callout electricians?

Thanks thats very helpful. Now thats why I want to make sure if a 24 hour emergency electrician was called out they were genuine/registered etc...Found lots on google but am nervous about them, so only want one from

http://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/find-an-electrician/

http://www.niceic.com

http://www.electricalcompetentperson.co.uk

but how do I stipulate 24 hour emergency electricians as they are all just regular 9 - 5 ones I can see.

 

[aptsys]

In many installations there is enough induced voltage on the neutral that connecting it to earth will trip an RCD (this can happen with the MCB in the OFF position). Poorly wired installations (borrowed neutrals anyone) are another matter.

Induced voltage on the neutral is NOT what causes an RCD to trip on a circuit isolated only by the phase conductor.

 

[oldbutnotdead]

Induced voltage on the neutral is NOT what causes an RCD to trip on a circuit isolated only by the phase conductor.

Oops- my bad, always assumed that was what caused the RCD to drop on phase only disconnected. Google as usual was my friend- now I know

(If anyone else is wondering, if anything is connected to the load side of that RCD, there'll be a small potential difference between N & E. Touch the 2 together & enough current will run to trip the RCD).