Earthing a water pipe??

[EFLImpudence]

Or

the window frame could become live because it is connected to a fault somewhere else.

 

[JohnW2]

Or ... the window frame could become live because it is connected to a fault somewhere else.

Well, yes, but I don't think I'd call that "being killed because the window frame was earthed" - would you?

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

Maybe not but it is a possibility.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

perhaps the reason the poor sparkies had to go to prison was a direct result of the poor woman being the wife of....................an MP.

Which poor woman are you talking about?

And which electricians went to prison because she died?

 

[JohnD]

perhaps you're thinking of the daughter and the kitchen fitter, but I don't believe anybody went to prison.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...r-electrocuted-in-botched-fitted-kitchen.html

"However the above incident occurred well after the Part P building regs we in consultation stage"
https://www.tradeskills4u.co.uk/posts/part-p-mp-daughter

 

[DIYedboy]

Quite so, poor and MP aren't two words that really go together. Am I wrong in assuming someone was forced to totter off to prison then?

 

[DIYedboy]

Yeah JD...............eeeerrrr, I've got the wrong end of the stick haven't !?............you'll have to forgive me gang, poor old fella, just can't seem to keep up with the 8 page threads like I used to, thank the lord I've still got me ravishing good looks!!

 

[Keithmac]

So I've got a metal bath, earthed combi boiler with copper pipe up to the bath and an electric shower.

Might just use a bucket in the back garden as it sounds safer!..

 

[ban-all-sheds]

perhaps you're thinking of the daughter and the kitchen fitter, but I don't believe anybody went to prison.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...r-electrocuted-in-botched-fitted-kitchen.html

Even after all these years one can still find new things.

"The electric cable, which led from a fuse box to the extractor fan hood above the cooker, was not insulated"

Why do they give the job of writing these reports to f*****g thickos who don't understand what they are writing about?

 

[rsgaz]

thickos who don't understand what they are writing about?

Did you read the second link, also badly written...

"one person dies from an electrical accident and well over a quarter of a million (350,000,000) are seriously injured every year."

Boy, that really is a hell of a lot over a quarter of a million!

 

[John D v2.0]

Why do they give the job of writing these reports to f*****g thickos who don't understand what they are writing about?

Agreed, most of the time from the report, you can hardly understand what really happened.
There was one recently where a concealed wall frame (non ecp) was live due to some trade screwing through a cable. When someone was electrocuted the electrician was prosecuted and they made out it's because they should have spotted it.
I can only assume the cable was running outside the zones, or they just decided the head electrician hadn't chosen someone competent to do the testing, because I can't think of a test that should have picked that up. Only possibility would be IR, BUT that wouldn't be a certainty.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

How recent?

This came into force on 1st July 2008:


522.6.8 Irrespective of the depth of the cable from a surface of the wall or partition, in an installation not intended to be under the supervision of a skilled or instructed person, a cable concealed in a wall or partition the internal construction of which includes metallic parts, other than metallic fixings such as nails, screws and the like, shall:

(i) incorporate an earthed metallic covering which complies with the requirements of these Regulations for a protective conductor of the circuit concerned, the cable complying with BS 5467, BS 6346, BS 6724, BS 7846, BS EN 60702-1 or BS 8436, or

(ii) be enclosed in earthed conduit complying with BS EN 61386 and satisfying the requirements of these Regulations for a protective conductor, or

(iii) be enclosed in earthed trunking or ducting complying with BS EN 50085 and satisfying the requirements of these Regulations for a protective conductor, or

(iv) be mechanically protected sufficiently to avoid damage to the cable during construction of the wall or partition and during installation of the cable, or

(v) be provided with additional protection by means of an RCD having the characteristics specified in Regulation 415.1.1.

NOTE: If the cable is installed at a depth of 50 mm or less from the surface of a wall or partition the requirements of Regulation 522.6.6 also apply.

 

[aesmith]

There was one recently where a concealed wall frame (non ecp) was live due to some trade screwing through a cable. When someone was electrocuted the electrician was prosecuted and they made out it's because they should have spotted it.
I can only assume the cable was running outside the zones, or they just decided the head electrician hadn't chosen someone competent to do the testing, because I can't think of a test that should have picked that up. Only possibility would be IR, BUT that wouldn't be a certainty.

Isn't that the same case discussed a few pages back, Emma Shaw? I don't know how authoritative it is, but there's a thread on IEEE which gives a bit more detail http://www.theiet.org/forums/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=205&threadid=57216

 

[John D v2.0]

be provided with additional protection by means of an RCD

I think that was what they were missing. According to the link just below your post, the test results were just made up off site after the install was energised. In fac, on that thready they speculate that a L-frame fault may not be picked up by proper testing.
This thread is the information that is useful, I only read the news reports which didn't say anything useful.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

This was the summary of the case against/actions of the electricians:

The police later arrested both the QS Hoult and Tomkins the electricians mate and they were interviewed under caution. Tomkins had signed an Electrical Installation Certificate as the Inspector. He admitted he was not qualified or competent to do so. He said he had been taken to the flat by the electrical site foreman and told to do ring continuity and loop impedance testing.He said when he got to the flat the installation was already energised. He did no other inspection and testing. He said that in the site hut they had sat around the table with the site foreman and was told the other tests had been done and he was told what to write on the test certificate.

This EIC was submitted to Anchors offices where a type written certificate was produced. The type written version had differences to Tomkins hand written version. The typed version had "P/P C Tomkins" in the single signature box for design. construction and inspection. Tomkins said in court he had not seen the typed form and he would not have consented to his signature being used. Mr Hoult the QS said that he just checked the figures on the form and signed it as the QS. he did not go to site and was not involved in the testing and inspection. Mr Hoult had known Tomkins for many years and it was alleged he knew about Tomkins status as a mate and his lack of qualifications.​

But did you see the post a bit further down, about a completely separate situation?

With ref; to the RCD box being ticked for a non present RCD,
I upgraded a consumer unit some 3 or 4 years ago at a house just after a bathroom refit that had had a small con unit fitted with no RCD protection.
The cert had ticked the RCD present box but upon my testing was getting >310ms.
Where was the RCD in question I thought that was not operating correctly\gone faulty.
Phoned the electrician (Niceic Approved) who issued cert to ask where RCD was."It is an RCBO "he said...."No it isnt" I replied at which he replied that he had told his collegue to order and fit an RCBO .
When I asked him to explain how and why the x1 and x5 test had been recorded at 18ms he replied that all Hagar RCBO,s were 18ms trip time and that was that.....I was quite surprised at his audacity and flippant manner.

The customer was fuming,complained to the bathroom company....no joy....customer complained to NICEIC and because I had done the consumer unit and integrated the bathroom circuit onto my new RCD board would not take action.

This was one the installer had been caught out with but how many more guestimated certs of his are out there!!! NIC were not interested about that.
​

Utterly shameful, and impossible to excuse by the most microscopic amount. It may not surprise you to learn that I think if we cannot drastically increase the chances of people doing those things getting caught, we need to drastically increase the penalties.

Those guys sitting in a site hut fabricating results knew that it was wrong, but they DGAS. So make them GAS by making them think "hang on - if I get caught I will spend decades in prison and my family will be destitute".

As a society we either want this sort of thing, or we do not. And we cannot, must not, brush it away - we too must GAS, and we must, each of us actively think what we want.

Do we want behaviour like this, or do we not want it. Not caring, not being bothered, is not an option. There is a binary choice here, just like there is for the people who decide, or not, to cynically ignore the rules of a civilised society.