Installing transformer in boxed off area?

[DanInManchester]

The back corner of my bathroom has an area which is boxed in with water supply, heating, waste pipe and various wires running from other parts of the house down to the ground floor consumer unit just below.

This is all boxed in and tiled with a concealed shower valve and then shower tray butted straight up to it. It is all CLS stud work and cement board.

There is a small niche in the shower which goes in to this boxed in space.

What I want to do is put IP65 LED strip lights in the niche and then a small access panel either in the ceiling or to the side of the boxing where I can place the driver / transformer then get it all certified.

Given this is a service area with other wires running through it, built recently to code I assume having wiring in there is okay as is an IP 65 light if it were 240v as it could all be wired in.

However, as I want to use 12v lighting the question is can I put an access panel and transformer in there?

I've done a crude diagram to help explain!

 

[flameport]

You can put the transformer there provided it is accessible for maintenance / replacement.

then get it all certified

Unlikely.
What exactly do you mean by 'certified', who would you expect to do that, and what would you want from that person after they did whatever you think they should do?

 

[DanInManchester]

I meant notify. Part P. Sorry not down with the lingo!

 

[flameport]

For notification there are 2 choices.
1 - you notify building control first and pay their (large) fee, and then do the work yourself. They may inspect or test things - or not. They may want you to do the testing.
2 - an electrician who is a member of a scheme does the work and the notification via the scheme (such as NICEIC, NAPIT and others)

There is a theoretical third option of using a third party certifier, the arrangement there is similar to direct to building control. However there are very few of them, and it's not likely to be any cheaper or easier than via building control.

 

[DanInManchester]

Yes I have someone who is able to do this on a low cost hourly rate.
The question was more would this modification be in line with part P for when that time comes.

 

[EFLImpudence]

The question was more would this modification be in line with part P for when that time comes.

Not sure what that means, but -

The Building Regulation Part P merely states:

That's it. That's all it states. There is no more.
It applies to ALL electrical work where it applies.

A different Building Regulation - 12, 6 - states that some electrical work (different in Wales) is notifiable to the Local authority.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2012/3119/regulation/6/made

The work you are contemplating falls under one of those rules - 6A(c) - so you must do as Flameport has told you.

Either notify before you start or employ a registered electrician.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

... driver / transformer ...

Please ignore any useless, unhelpful, unwanted idiots who pop up banging on about those terms.

You know what you mean and so do they, but no matter how many times they are told to stop banging on about it, they won't, as they are troll-vandals.

 

[securespark]

Why? Why? Why?

Now I have to ruin my diet by rushing out to buy skip-loads of popcorn....

 

[ban-all-sheds]

There's always the possibility that people may decide not to self-identify as useless, unhelpful, unwanted troll-vandal idiots

 

[DanInManchester]

The point has been missed here. This work is notifiable under part P and I understand the process and how to go about this.

What I was wanting a second opinion on is the status with regard to the boxed off area, putting an access panel and electrical devices such as transformers etc.

As a CLOSED service area behind the shower with existing electrical wiring is it outside of any zones I need to consider as far as I can tell.
If I opened up this space (removed the boxing) it would clearly be zone 1 and then everything behind it already becomes a problem.
This is not the intent, just illustrating the point.

Regardless of the electrical work I plan to put an access panel in so I can have a stop valve for the entire bathroom on this floor and above.
Does this materially change this boxed off area in terms of its zones and requirements under part P?

Would it be permissible to put a transformer in this area.

 

[JohnW2]

The point has been missed here. ... As a CLOSED service area behind the shower with existing electrical wiring is it outside of any zones I need to consider as far as I can tell. If I opened up this space (removed the boxing) it would clearly be zone 1 and then everything behind it already becomes a problem.

Zones do not extent below the surface of a wall, so I agree that within the boxing would not not be within zones, so work in that space would not be notifiable..

Regardless of the electrical work I plan to put an access panel in so I can have a stop valve for the entire bathroom on this floor and above. Does this materially change this boxed off area in terms of its zones and requirements under part P?

I don't think the access panel makes any difference. I certainly don't think it would if one had to use a 'tool' (e.g. screwdriver or key) to open the panel. However, even if a tool were not needed, it seems to be accepted that the inside of a cupboard is 'outside of zones', even if the door can be opened without a tool, and the panel would be no different from that.

Would it be permissible to put a transformer in this area.

On the above basis, I would say yes.

If it is accepted that within the boxing (even with the access panel) is 'outside of zones', then the only part of the work which would be notifiable would be the installation of the light itself (in the 'niche').

The circuit involved would need to be RCD protected. Is that the case?

Kind Regards, John

 

[DanInManchester]

Yes the circuit is already RCD backed as it is a relatively new house.

"If it is accepted that within the boxing (even with the access panel) is 'outside of zones'"

This is the key point and what you are saying seems to concur with what I was told although no one seems prepared to make a cast ion assertion.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Please advise where the lights themselves will be situated. Even if they are 12v, they may need to be supplied from a specific type of power supply.

 

[JohnW2]

"If it is accepted that within the boxing (even with the access panel) is 'outside of zones'"
This is the key point and what you are saying seems to concur with what I was told although no one seems prepared to make a cast ion assertion.

The problem is that the Building Regs and BS7671 do not contain much explicit detail as to what counts as being 'in zones' (other than in 'obvious'/straightforward situations), so all you will be able to get are personal opinions/interpretations, hopefully based on common sense.

I've offered my personal opinion/interpretation - but it will be interesting to hear what others say. Pragmatically speaking, if there are differences of opinion, I don't think you need to worry too much, provided what is done is 'reasonable'. Of course, it's ultimately the view of the person who undertakes, certifies and notifies the work which matters.

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

What I want to do is put IP65 LED strip lights in the niche

Whether that and the power supply is an addition or alteration to a circuit within the zones is for you to decide.

Is there a light there at the moment?