Niceic Green sheet
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My understanding is that the NICEIC 'green' EICR (and other) certificates can be purchased and used by anyone, do not bear any NICEIC logo (or any other reference to NICEIC) and are therefore simply expensive bits of paper, the equivalent of which many/most people could probably produce for themselves with their own PC and printer.
Don't forget that anyone (not necessarily even an electrician) can undertake an EICR, but only those appropriately 'approved' (by NICEIC) can do so under the banner of being a NICEIC member.
Kind Regards, John
Then there is no point joining niceic private rented sector scheme if I can issue EICR without niceic logo
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No - but if you have to ask then you are not knowledgeable enough to carry out EICRs.
I would advise you not to do any.
As I said, anyone can issue an EICR, recorded of any sort of bit of paper they wish, provided that it does not claim or imply that it is being provided by someone approved by some organisation so to do - but whether a LA would accept it in relation to the private rental sector legislation is a totally different matter. I would imagine that they would not accept it.
Kind Regards, John
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From the relevant regulations:
“qualified person” means a person competent to undertake the inspection and testing required under regulation 3(1) and any further investigative or remedial work in accordance with the electrical safety standards;
No identification of required qualifications or scheme membership.
No explicit powers for the LA to refuse to accept a report, but there is this:
4.—(1) Where a local housing authority has reasonable grounds to believe that, in relation to residential premises situated within its area, a private landlord is in breach of one or more of the duties under regulation 3(1)(a), (1)(b), (1)(c), (4) and (6), and the most recent report under regulation 3(3) does not indicate that urgent remedial action is required, the authority must serve a remedial notice on the private landlord.
So I guess if they thought the report was not done by somebody competent they could invoke that.
“qualified person” means a person competent to undertake the inspection and testing required under regulation 3(1) and any further investigative or remedial work in accordance with the electrical safety standards;
No identification of required qualifications or scheme membership.
No explicit powers for the LA to refuse to accept a report, but there is this:
4.—(1) Where a local housing authority has reasonable grounds to believe that, in relation to residential premises situated within its area, a private landlord is in breach of one or more of the duties under regulation 3(1)(a), (1)(b), (1)(c), (4) and (6), and the most recent report under regulation 3(3) does not indicate that urgent remedial action is required, the authority must serve a remedial notice on the private landlord.
So I guess if they thought the report was not done by somebody competent they could invoke that.
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Historically NICEIC required full registered contractor status to do I&T - Domestic Installer wasn't enough.
Yes, we have discussed that at length, but that would have been before you were around here. As you go on to say, the legislation requyires no more that the person undertaking the I&T is 'competent' so to do. However ...
As you say, no explicit qualifications/schgeme membership, and no 'explicit powers' but (as I think is what you go on to say), in the absence of any explicit definition of 'competent', an LA can presumably refuse to accept a report if (applying whatever criteria of 'competent' they see fit) their opinion is that the person concerned was not 'competent' enough to qualify as a "qualified person" as required by the legislation?
As you will have seen, my personal view is that those who undertake thee 'landlord EICRs' probably should be licensed/registered so to do (so that there 'licence' could be revoked if necessary) and obtaining such a licence/regulation would presumably be based on qualifications and/or scheme membership at the very least (and quite probably with a required period of 'experience' as well).
Kind Regards, John
I'm not aware of that having changed - which would presumably explain why NICEIC have apparently told the OP that if he wants to do EICRs, he has to use their 'green' ('non-NICEIC') forms?
Kind Regards, John
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When I bought this house I had a home buyers report done, on that report there was reference to the condition of the electrics, so one could hardly argue the fact I have an electrical installation condition report, and it has been completed by some one with a degree to show he has the skill to make the report, however it is clearly not what anyone would consider is an EICR.
There were in the draft a number of items raised, 10 years experience, insurance, and check list to show skill, but these did not appear in the law, I would say the risk of doing an EICR without professional indemnity insurance would be crazy, any one would assume the insurance company would ask for some proof you have the skill before issuing the insurance, but I have always worked cards in, so never needed to get insurance, as to how anyone can get 10 years experience of inspection and testing without doing inspection and testing I don't know? So that seemed a silly requirement, but on these pages we see debate over what should get a C2 code, and to be able to argue ones case, in real terms you need C&G 2391, but as yet there is no hard and fast rules.
What I see as a problem is, if you have the NICEIC logo on any paperwork, overalls, van, website etc. Then you are telling the client you are authorised by NICEIC to do the work, if your not then it is fraud, so even if you and me have same skill and qualifications I can do work with no membership which you can't and of course vice versa. You have signed to obey those rules.
There were in the draft a number of items raised, 10 years experience, insurance, and check list to show skill, but these did not appear in the law, I would say the risk of doing an EICR without professional indemnity insurance would be crazy, any one would assume the insurance company would ask for some proof you have the skill before issuing the insurance, but I have always worked cards in, so never needed to get insurance, as to how anyone can get 10 years experience of inspection and testing without doing inspection and testing I don't know? So that seemed a silly requirement, but on these pages we see debate over what should get a C2 code, and to be able to argue ones case, in real terms you need C&G 2391, but as yet there is no hard and fast rules.
What I see as a problem is, if you have the NICEIC logo on any paperwork, overalls, van, website etc. Then you are telling the client you are authorised by NICEIC to do the work, if your not then it is fraud, so even if you and me have same skill and qualifications I can do work with no membership which you can't and of course vice versa. You have signed to obey those rules.
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It would.
Plus, of course and being repeated, the PRS legislation does not mention EICRs.
Indeed.
However, as I said above, it appears that the legislation leaves an LA free to decide for itself whether someone is adequately 'competent' to undertake the I&T required by the legislation - and one suspects (at least, I suspect!) that, in general, they would not be so satisfied in relation to someone who NICIEC (or whoever) did not regard as suitable for undertaking a 'NICEIC-labelled' EICR.
Kind Regards, John
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