1980s Girling caliper with integral handbrake problems

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Avocet

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Hi All,

I'm struggling here! It's a 1989 Alfa 164. The handbrake was pretty bad, so I treated it to new Brembo discs and pads, and had the rear calipers reconditioned by Bigg Red.

Unfortunately, the handbrake has failed the MOT twice now, for poor efficiency. What's more, I do have to admit it's pretty bad! It will just about hold the car on a 1-in-10 hill. According to the MOT brake tester, I'm getting 120 kgf on the offside and 88 on the nearside. With the brake test weight of 1500kg, that leaves me with just under 15% efficiency, and I need 16 or more. There's no chance of locking a rear wheel on dry tarmac.

I've tried adjusting the pistons manually by twisting them. I've also tried letting the calipers self-adjust by just fitting them fully retracted and pressing the brake pedal a few times. Footbrake efficiency is OK.

I've tried adjusting the cable every which way too. I haven't replaced the cable but it "looks" OK and with it disconnected, I can pull the inner cable with just finger effort, on both sides, so I assume it's not seized. There MIGHT be more friction in it under load, of course.

I'm at a bit of a loss as to what to try next! I'd be grateful for any thoughts, please.
 
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There was an expert on handbrakes here on the forum.
He drive a Vectra fitted with a Fiat engine...
See if you find him for advice.
 
I haven't much to offer here but anyway....
Make sure the cable is right back at the stop at the caliper end with the handbrake fully off;
Check out whatever sort of compensator the cable has to help it get an even pull on each cable, lube it well;
Drive the car, apply the handbrake gently from time to time just to bed the new pads in - even check out the rub pattern on the pad to see if it's contacting the disc as much as possible. If the pad is touching on only one area, sand that area down to increase the contact.
It may just be enough to get you a pass certificate!
John :)
 
Did the problem exist before having the calipers reconditioned?

From what you say, the cable is one piece. Is the cable oiled inside the bowden?

Do both calipers handbrake levers have the same degree of movement when the handbrake is pulled on and do both levers return to their stops? On the x2 VW Bors we have, rust build up between the lever and its stop bracket impeded rotation but with the calipers in this case having had TLC by Biggred, that can presumably be eliminated.

Pads were bedded in with brake grease?

Handbrake lever mechanism is in good working order?
 
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Thanks John. Cable "appears" free when under no load. It's a 1 piece cable which goes from one caliper, round a pulley on the bottom of the handbrake lever, and back to the other caliper. Pulley is free, but the half of the cable that goes to the wheel with the lowest braking effort does pass very close to the silencer, so maybe... just maybe...

I have my local motor factor running round looking for another cable. Can't think what else to change!

Pads are nicely bedded-in, and the shiny area of disc and pad matches up well on both sides. All appears to be absolutely perfect...

...except it doesn't bleedin' work!
 
DIYspanner said:
Did the problem exist before having the calipers reconditioned?
Click to expand...

Yes, the handbrake has never been what you'd call "good", but it had deteriorated somewhat and I didn't think it would get through the next MOT. The new discs and pads were because the discs were ridged and below minimum thickness anyway, and the pads only had about 3-4mm on them. However, after the new discs and pads, and winding the pistons back completely, the handbrake was even worse on one side and wouldn't work at all on the other, so I sent the calipers off to be reconditioned.

DIYspanner said:
From what you say, the cable is one piece. Is the cable oiled inside the bowden?
Click to expand...
No. I've heard different things about that. Some people say you must never do it because the oil could attack the liner. Others say it can attract dirt and make the whole problem worse. Do you reckon I should try it? I've ordered another handbrake cable, so I guess I have nothing to lose! I also have some PTFE spray which goes on and then dries. I might be able to force some of that up the cable, I guess?

DIYspanner said:
Do both calipers handbrake levers have the same degree of movement when the handbrake is pulled on and do both levers return to their stops? On the x2 VW Bors we have, rust build up between the lever and its stop bracket impeded rotation but with the calipers in this case having had TLC by Biggred, that can presumably be eliminated.
Click to expand...
Yes, both levers completely free and smooth in operation. When released, they hit their stops with a satisfying click. Basically, they're "as new" in that respect. The only difference between them is that when I repeatedly pull and release the lever on the "good" caliper, the piston "jacks" itself further and further out. When I do that on the "bad side", the piston moved out a few mm and then goes back in again when I release the lever. I'm going to try and talk to Bigg Red about that this afternoon, if I get the chance.

DIYspanner said:
Pads were bedded in with brake grease?
Click to expand...
Only on the backs...(y)

DIYspanner said:
Handbrake lever mechanism is in good working order?
Click to expand...
Haven't taken it to bits, but it "feels" free enough when the cable isn't connected to the calipers.

Thanks for all the suggestions - keep 'em coming please!
 
Avocet said:
No. I've heard different things about that. Some people say you must never do it because the oil could attack the liner. Others say it can attract dirt and make the whole problem worse. Do you reckon I should try it? I've ordered another handbrake cable, so I guess I have nothing to lose! I also have some PTFE spray which goes on and then dries. I might be able to force some of that up the cable, I guess?
Click to expand...

Its personal choice I suppose whether the cable is oiled. I had to free a Picanto cable a few months ago that was stuck in the off position. Took it off the car and dangling it, dabbed the upper end of the cable with new engine oil and let it seep down into the the bowden. Worked the cable and eventually it was free enough and still working.

As an after thought, I should have used diesel. I watched an episode of Salvage Hunters where they renovated some kind of clockwork machine by putting it in a bath of diesel for a week. Worked a treat, both cleaned and lubricated the machine.

As per common sense, we try these options at our own risk.

Have you looked on YT for folk with similar bother?
 
I don't like the idea of the faulty side piston retracting.....these handbrakes - and others which are border line at the best of times (early MX5) need the pad to be kissing the disc at all times. I'd suggest this is your problem.
If your cable has a sheathed nylon inner, don't lube it.
John :)
 
Avocet said:
No. I've heard different things about that. Some people say you must never do it because the oil could attack the liner. Others say it can attract dirt and make the whole problem worse. Do you reckon I should try it? I've ordered another handbrake cable, so I guess I have nothing to lose! I also have some PTFE spray which goes on and then dries. I might be able to force some of that up the cable, I guess?
Click to expand...

Not sure about PTFE - should be OK. Silicone lubricant is fine for cables. Think it's mainly mineral oils to be avoided.
 
Not sure about your caliper but on some callipers there is a blanking screw on them. Remove that and you can adjust the handbrake mechanism with a small Allen key. I know some Volvo's have that as I needlessly replaced a caliper once!
 
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