New Zealand

wrong

your bigotry is overwhelming you.

wrong again.
Sorry, JohnD, but you're not the arbiter of whether my responses are wrong or right.
And as you've demonstrated the willingness to insert words into supposed quotes, resorted to absurdity, attempted to divert the discussion into transubstantiation, demonstrated your own bigotry, and failed to provide an iota of medical evidence or eminent opinion to support your argument, your credibility and your judgement is damaged.
 
Looks like there was a legal ruling today allowing blokes identifying as woman who are guilty of a criminal offence will be allowed to serve there sentence in a woman’s prison :ROFLMAO:

the case that opposed this nonsense was brought by woman who stated that if this caper was allowed woman prisoners would be put at risk in particular from sex offenders

the fruit cake judge and court ignored these concerns :ROFLMAO:

so there you have it lunatics have taken over the asylum and trans wat sit fruit cakes can go to a female prison :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:


Not wrong.
 
So maliciously and repeatedly wrong that you must be deliberately ignoring and contradicting the facts.
You haven't presented any facts to be contradicted nor ignored.
All you've done is repeatedly expressed your opinion, an opinion not supported by medical science, in fact an opinion specifically contradicted by medical science.
 
your bigotry is overwhelming you.
Don't be absurd, JohnD. If I'm respecting women's rights and transgender's rights. how can I be bigoted?
What is more, I recognise that the two group's rights are sometimes in competition. All one can do is to manage the situation as best as one can to afford both groups their rights wherever possible. I favour neither group to declare eithers' rights to be more important.
Whereas you consider women's rights to be more important than transgenders' rights. That's bigotry, especially when your opinion is based on nothing more than your personal belief.
 
I see no reason why the term "women" should be diminished in its meaning to encompass "woman and any other people who declare themselves to be women."

Therefore, I do not agree that "any other people who declare themselves to be women" are entitled to usurp womens spaces in sport or in prisons.

I especially do not agree that women (excluding "any other people who declare themselves to be women") should be obliged to accept "any other people who declare themselves to be women" when they have no choice in the matter, and especially when they have no possibility of escape.

What do you think a "woman" is?

Why do you think that a person who is not a woman should be permitted to compete against women in womens sports?

You are not "respecting women" by redefining what a woman is to include people who are not women.
 
You haven't presented any facts to be contradicted nor ignored.

You claimed that Laurel had been found, by medical and scientific tests, to be a woman.

That is not true, and you know it.

Yet you repeatedly made the claim.

The athlete in question was medically and scientifically examined and judged to be a woman.

Not true.

So maliciously and repeatedly wrong that you must be deliberately ignoring and contradicting the facts.
 
You can't see the words "So in reality" then.
I can see them.

I can also see that you are wrong here:

You admit then that you inserted the word 'male' into one of your supposed quotes.
nonsense.
because it isnt "nonsense". In the same post where you want people to see the words "So in reality" they can see that you did indeed insert the word "male" into a quote.


Nor
by "a transgender woman" he means

a male
Do you have any proof that that is what he meant?
 
We've debated this for pages and pages, and you failed to provide a convincing argument, any evidence, or any eminent opinion to support your argument then.
Basically JohnD does not want anybody who does not conform to his belief in binary sex & gender to be allowed to compete in sport.
 
Then the prison system needs to get its act into gear and manage the violent sex offenders better than they are doing at the moment.
The prison system needs to get its act into gear and manage all violent offenders better than they are doing at the moment.


Prisoners of both sexes have a right to not be assaulted.
Prisoners of all sexes have a right to not be assaulted.

No prisoner (or officer) should be at risk of assault by anybody else in the prison, no matter what the sex or gender of either of them.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-48885846
 
the fruit cake judge and court ignored these concerns :ROFLMAO:

so there you have it lunatics have taken over the asylum and trans wat sit fruit cakes can go to a female prison :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

Not wrong.
OK - so youve gone for the full-on-transam level of ignorance and bigotry, calling judges and courts fruitcakes and lunatics when they give rulings based on laws you disagree with.

Fair enough.


I see no reason
Indeed not.
 
You claimed that Laurel had been found, by medical and scientific tests, to be a woman.

That is not true, and you know it.

Yet you repeatedly made the claim.



Not true.

So maliciously and repeatedly wrong that you must be deliberately ignoring and contradicting the facts.
Measuring testosterone levels is a medically scientific test.
It is the one test we can be absolutely sure that Laurel was subjected to, because it has been reported in the press that she had acceptable levels of testosterone to compete as a woman.
We don't know whether she was subjected to any other tests. We don't know whether her medical history, nor her anatomy was considered.
So, yes, absolutely she was subjected to medically scientific examination.
You can refuse to accept that it is a medically scientific test, if you wish, but that doesn't stop it being so.
If we wished everything didn't exist that we disagreed with, the world would be a boring place, and probably barren of everything we currently understand.
 
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I see no reason why the term "women" should be diminished in its meaning to encompass "woman and any other people who declare themselves to be women."
Therefore, I do not agree that "any other people who declare themselves to be women" are entitled to usurp womens spaces in sport or in prisons.
I especially do not agree that women (excluding "any other people who declare themselves to be women") should be obliged to accept "any other people who declare themselves to be women" when they have no choice in the matter, and especially when they have no possibility of escape.
If you refuse to accept that transgender women are women, that's your right to an intolerant attitude. It doesn't mean that everyone else has to conform to your view.

What do you think a "woman" is?
There you go again, trying to start a discussion by inviting someone else to start the discussion.
If you want to start a discussion, the usual procedure is to state your idea, theory, definition, etc, and invite comments or arguments.
If I wanted to start a discussion about, say, holidays, it would be nonsensical if I created a thread, and simply said, "Holidays, Discuss".
That is basically what you are doing, wanting to start a discussion by inviting someone else to start the discussion.


Why do you think that a person who is not a woman should be permitted to compete against women in womens sports?
Transgender women are women. If you are intolerant to that idea, then it's your intolerance that is the problem.

You are not "respecting women" by redefining what a woman is to include people who are not women.
I'm not redefining anything.
We've (I think) already acknowledged that genital ambiguity exists. That includes a whole spectrum of ambiguities, from lack of testes in an otherwise male, and existence of testes in an otherwise women, to all sorts of jumbled up biology. Numerous medical scientific articles and eminent opinions have been presented to support that.
These types of anatomy ambiguities, and other issues can give rise to gender dysphoria, which you have refused to acknowledge does exist. But it does.
Your apparent attitude would be to insist that those with gender dysphoria live out their lives in the gender assigned label that conforms to their sex assigned label at birth.
Does your attitude extend to other types of congenital ambiguities and anomalies?
Conclusion: Patients with ambiguous genitalia often have additional congenital anomalies.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29157626/
Do you insist that anyone born with a congenital anomaly live out their lives with their anomaly, even though it can be medically, scientifically and socially accommodated?

Some further reading, which would suggest if and why there are more transgenders transitioning from male to female:
Newborn Ambiguous Genitalia Management
Charles Sultan, ... Serge Lumbroso, in Encyclopedia of Endocrine Diseases, 2004

True Hermaphroditism
The true hermaphrodite has both testicular and ovarian tissues present in either the same or opposite gonads. Both the external genitalia and the internal duct structures display gradations between male and female. The initial manifestation is ambiguous genitalia in 90% of the cases. More rarely, isolated clitoromegaly or penile hypospadias is seen. Two-thirds of true hermaphrodites are raised as males.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/true-hermaphroditism
 
On this prison caper

the law is an ass the judge is an an Ass and his legal judgement is a joke devoid of any common sense

woman’s rights are being trampled
On by chancers and fruit cakes

supported by a vocal minority of chancers and fruit cakes
 
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