Stop and Search powers to be made permanent

[Mottie]

I said credible source. Eg a Researcher/Academic, expert in their field

Right, so you’re looking for a middle class academic without an ounce of common sense? Thought you might be. Are you saying that those links are falsified in some way?

 

[Mottie]

Express Daily Mail is credible to him.

What about the other links then?

 

[Mottie]

Looking at some of the replies here, I think I’m seeing what the problem with stop and search is. Those with experience of life in inner city areas and are familiar with disaffected youths, gangs, drug and knife crime etc can see it. They see it every day. They know who is likely to be doing it. Those that wish to deny it are all calling for reports/theories/studies/pieces of work by middle class academics. Of course, they are in the thick of it, aren't they?

 

[SirGalahad]

What about the other links then?

I suggest you read my post above.

Stop and Search works if its targeted and not random. Lowering the barrier only makes it use more likely and the evidence does indicate that you will end up wasting more time stopping innocent people.

Learn about Type 1 and Type 2 errors. You want to reduce the number of innocent people being stopped as it is a waste of resources.

 

[SirGalahad]

Looking at some of the replies here, I think I’m seeing what the problem with stop and search is. Those with experience of life in inner city areas and are familiar with disaffected youths, gangs, drug and knife crime etc can see it. They see it every day. They know who is likely to be doing it. Those that wish to deny it are all calling for reports/theories/studies/pieces of work by middle class academics. Of course, they are in the thick of it, aren't they?

Can you respond to where someone has said ban stop and search?

Now why is inner city crime high?

If you know have you informed the Police or is this another rant short on action and details?

No one wants crime but at least think how do we lower the incidence of crime as well as apprehending those who do the crime.

We are 11k Police Officers short since 2010- you think that has had an impact?

What about the cuts to the Legal System and Prison service.

Tories defunding the Police...

 

[SirGalahad]

Looking at some of the replies here, I think I’m seeing what the problem with stop and search is. Those with experience of life in inner city areas and are familiar with disaffected youths, gangs, drug and knife crime etc can see it. They see it every day. They know who is likely to be doing it. Those that wish to deny it are all calling for reports/theories/studies/pieces of work by middle class academics. Of course, they are in the thick of it, aren't they?

How many police stations have closed since 2010?

I support our Police, I want a well trained and funded Police. It benefits everyone but cheap gimmicks and tricks always works with you. Why?

 

[diy_fun_uk]

There has to be bias of some kind to solve crime.
If most drug dealers and knife carriers in your local area fit a certain profile e.g. young and from a particular ethnicity, then that is the group you target.
After all, if people are being mugged by young criminals on bicycles, would you target pensioners on disability scooters for stop and search.

The issue is we have people from certain ethnicities being disproportionately stopped when they have no involvement in crime, no previous convictions etc. I get what you're saying about the police targeting specific groups to solve crime, however should that include stopping people simply because they're black? I'm sure we've all read accounts or seen pieces on tv about black people (with no involvement in crime whatsoever) being stopped by police sometimes a few times within a month or more, when they're innocently going about their business. It's all very well saying 'if you're innocent you have nothing to fear then' so those being disproportionately stopped are just supposed to except it based on that argument?

Can most of us honestly say we'd be okay with getting stopped and searched/questioned x times a year or more frequently just because we fit a certain criteria? What I find in life is the masses are good at saying 'what's the problem?!?' however when that thing, whatever it is, affects them or a loved one directly, they often start to take a different stance.

If you think about crimes committed by white people, I wonder if the police are randomly stopping and searching white men and woman because they are nothing more than white? After all, they 'fit' that target group don't they?

 

[Mottie]

How many police stations have closed since 2010?

I support our Police, I want a well trained and funded Police. It benefits everyone but cheap gimmicks and tricks always works with you. Why?

Stopping and searching people, confiscating knives and preventing death and injury are not cheap gimmicks or tricks in my book.

 

[SirGalahad]

Stopping and searching people, confiscating knives and preventing death and injury are not cheap gimmicks or tricks in my book.

The Police are calling them cheap gimmicks - they would rather have their pay not frozen and officer numbers and police station cut.

No one is arguing the ending of stop and search but it seems thats your argument. The point is that you want to make a straw man argument as you cannot respond to the points above.

They are gimmicks when you dont have enough officers ont the ground or the prison and legal service to back them up.

So why did you vote for these cuts?

 

[Mottie]

The Police are calling them cheap gimmicks - they would rather have their pay not frozen and officer numbers and police station cut.

No one is arguing the ending of stop and search but it seems thats your argument. The point is that you want to make a straw man argument as you cannot respond to the points above.

They are gimmicks when you dont have enough officers ont the ground or the prison and legal service to back them up.

So why did you vote for these cuts?

Tell us who you voted for and why.

 

[SirGalahad]

Tell us who you voted for and why.

Last election Lib Dems as a tactial vote.

Own your decision. You complain about crime then you turn a blind eye to the cuts to the Police Force. Hypocrisy.

 

[Mottie]

Last election Lib Dems as a tactial vote.

Own your decision. You complain about crime then you turn a blind eye to the cuts to the Police Force. Hypocrisy.

I’m pretty sure that every political party had parts of their manifesto that I don’t agree with. Everyone does. On your basis, nobody would ever cast a vote. Protest/tactical votes are a cop-out.

 

[Mottie]

You want to reduce the number of innocent people being stopped as it is a waste of resources.

I’m not concerned about that in the slightest. If they’re law abiding, neither should they. I live near Upminster train station. It’s at the very end of the District line. I’ve lost count of the number of school kids that have been relieved of their bikes, phones and trainers by gangs of black, yes, black kids that don’t live here but come down on the train to carry out street robbery. Since the police started stop search on black kids hanging around the station in summer with hooded puffer jackets on, the number of robberies have gone down. Fact - although you might not like it. Mind you, of late they have got street smart and it seems that the 'weapon' of choice is……a metal walking crutch. I kid you not.

 

[Captain Nemesis]

I’m not concerned about that in the slightest. If they’re law abiding, neither should they.

And there we have the raving prejudiced voice of someone who cant wait to live in a police state because he thinks he will be one of the privileged ones.

Of course stop-and-search is racially biased - thats why the RWRs love it so much.

 

[motorbiking]

The Police are calling them cheap gimmicks - they would rather have their pay not frozen and officer numbers and police station cut.

No one is arguing the ending of stop and search but it seems thats your argument. The point is that you want to make a straw man argument as you cannot respond to the points above.

They are gimmicks when you dont have enough officers ont the ground or the prison and legal service to back them up.

So why did you vote for these cuts?

They are very well paid, not particularly well educated and highly unionised. Crime has also changed. There is a lot more fraud, international organised crime and better technology that means we probably don't need local police stations with local police wandering about on patrol.