One for the epidemiologists on the forum.

[IT Minion]

Italy is probably comparable to the UK in both size, wealth, age ranges and vaccination status.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ss-rule-prompts-rise-covid-jab-vaccine-uptake

Green Passes are either being fully vaccinated or having a daily Covid test. That you have to pay for.

Persons over the age of 12 must present a COVID-19 digital green pass in order to access certain services and activities:

• Travelling by air, train, ship, ferry or bus throughout Italy
• Restaurants, bars, ice cream parlours and pastry shops for consumption at table indoors
• Performances open to the public, sporting events, both outdoors and indoors
• Museums and places of culture, shows
• Swimming pools and gyms
• Private parties, such as wedding receptions
• Festivals and trade fairs
• Conventions and congresses
• Spas and fitness centres
• Gaming halls and betting shops, bingo halls and casinos

So, Covid passports are required for a large range of activities. Although not shopping as far as I can see, which does make sense.

FACE MASK AND DISTANCING

Wearing a face mask is always mandatory in indoor public places throughout Italy.
Masks are no longer mandatory outdoors, but you must always carry one with you and wear it if you find yourself in crowded conditions that do not allow the 1 metre safety distance to be maintained.

So, Italy has stricter rules around social distancing and mask wearing and more people vaccinated (71% to our 67%). And do they have fewer cases? Yes they do. Exactly as everyone expects.

 

[Lower]

I didn't ignore the full post.

If, back at the beginning of last year, our governments hadn't scared everybody out of their wits by declaring this illness a world emergency, people would have called it a cold, got over it and carried on. Colds are a fact of life, they change all the time, but are still commonly called "colds" whilst scientists give them detailed names.

Covid is much worse than a cold. Have you had it yet?

 

[JohnD]

We have a government that is reluctant to take measures against the pandemic.

Lockdown was too late, and is again being resisted and delayed

Masks were sneered at, and the Johnson Government won't even wear them in Parliament.

 

[Lower]

We have a government that is reluctant to take measures against the pandemic.

Lockdown was too late, and is again being resisted and delayed

Masks were sneered at, and the Johnson Government won't even wear them in Parliament.

View attachment 248001

They're in their place of work with people that they meet on a regular basis. Its their choice. Don't MP's test daily when they are in parliament?

It has never been mandatory to wear masks in a workplace where you are not meeting people you don't normally mix with on a regular basis.

 

[JohnD]

mandatory

It's never been mandatory to load your infected family into a car and drive hundreds of miles to your illegal (no planning permission, no building regulations, no council tax) second home, or drive them to a day out at a tourist attraction to see if you are safe to drive.

It's never been mandatory to snog and grope your workplace underling

It's never been mandatory to visit a hospital on a publicity stunt and shake hands with vulnerable or infected patients and staff.


But what is sensible?

Do you know anyone with a responsibility to lead the country and reduce death and illness?

 

[Lower]

It's never been mandatory to load your infected family into a car and drive hundreds of miles to your illegal (no planning permission, no building regulations, no council tax) second home

It's never been mandatory to snog and grope your workplace underling


But what is sensible?

Do you know anyone with a responsibility to lead the country and reduce death and illness?

Snog and groping your workplace underling would be illegal and morally wrong. Cummings has proved himself to be an arse.

I don't think there is an appetite in government or the country to force all employees to wear facemasks at work. MP's not wearing facemasks in Parliament is not illegal or morally wrong. Nor is it setting a bad example, particularly is they are testing every day they are in parliament.

If MP's didn't wear facemasks in environments where they should wear facemasks, like a crowded demonstration or visit to a workplace where they would meet people they don't normally mix with, i'd agree with you.

I don't intend to wear a mask at work, nor do i intend to force my staff to wear masks when they are in the office unless they are mixing with people in close proximity they don't normally work with. I think the precautions we have in place are entirely sensible, and after 18 months of this, most sensible people know when it's beneficial to wear a mask.

I think you're using it as a political points scoring tool rather than based on any real concern.

 

[JohnD]

Cummings has proved himself to be an arse

As has Johnson.

He and his supporters persist in crowding into a chamber with hundreds of others, and refusing to wear masks.

They do the same in a crowded room.

 

[IT Minion]

It has never been mandatory to wear masks in a workplace where you are not meeting people you don't normally mix with on a regular basis.

It should be, Covid isn't a stranger-danger thing. It's those you know well that are most likely to infect you.

It is mandatory for for health care workers to wear masks inside even if they aren't patient facing.

This laxity is one of the many reasons we have such a high number of cases compared to other countries.

 

[Lower]

It should be, Covid isn't a stranger-danger thing. It's those you know well that are most likely to infect you.

It is mandatory for for health care workers to wear masks inside even if they aren't patient facing.

This laxity is one of the many reasons we have such a high number of cases compared to other countries.

Wearing facemask is quite a significant thing to have to do all day in my opinion isn't something that should be imposed unless absolutely necessary and not on a blanket basis.

Health care workers are different as the nature of their job means they are working with people with health conditions.

Apart from known high risk, high throughput areas (public transport, pubs, etc), i think mask wearing should be decided on based on risk by the employer.

 

[Notch7]

Wearing facemask is quite a significant thing to have to do all day in my opinion isn't something that should be imposed unless absolutely necessary and not on a blanket basis.

Health care workers are different as the nature of their job means they are working with people with health conditions.

Apart from known high risk, high throughput areas (public transport, pubs, etc), i think mask wearing should be decided on based on risk by the employer.

mask wearing has been politicised, starting from Trump.


I still wear a mask if I go to petrol station, Screwfix etc, I don’t like it but If it has a slight collective benefit, it’s a small price to pay.

but I feel sorry for people that have to wear one all day in their job, that must be horrible.

I think I agree, targeted mask wearing, based on risk does seem sensible.

 

[IT Minion]

Wearing facemask is quite a significant thing to have to do all day in my opinion isn't something that should be imposed unless absolutely necessary and not on a blanket basis.

Health care workers are different as the nature of their job means they are working with people with health conditions.

Apart from known high risk, high throughput areas (public transport, pubs, etc), i think mask wearing should be decided on based on risk by the employer.

Italy disagrees with you, and us as a nation, which is more lax than your fairly sensible viewpoint. I have no idea how many other countries agree with us or their approach. I think we're quite far into the lax end though.

I don't claim to know the right balance of cost reward on face masks but I do think we're under using them.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

I don't intend to wear a mask at work, nor do i intend to force my staff to wear masks when they are in the office unless they are mixing with people in close proximity they don't normally work with. I think the precautions we have in place are entirely sensible, and after 18 months of this, most sensible people know when it's beneficial to wear a mask.

Up to that last sentence, I agree with you. The problem with that is that people are not sensible and not being sensible at all. The took at that masks were 'not mandatory', translates to no need to wear a mask again, under any circumstances. Most on public transport and shops are now not wearing masks, the younger the age group, the rarer it is to see them sporting a mask - how much more of a regular mixing environment with complete strangers, can you get than these?

I am one of those continuing to wear a mask in all such circumstances, the sooner they change it from a recommendation to law requiring masks, the better.

 

[EFLImpudence]

That people who still think mask-wearing should be mandated, presumably means they don't trust the government.

Does this mean that these people could be labelled as 'conspiracy theorist nutters' in the same way as people who distrust the government in other matters?

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

That people who still think mask-wearing should be mandated, presumably means they don't trust the government.

Does this mean that these people could be labelled as 'conspiracy theorist nutters' in the same way as people who distrust the government in other matters?

No, it means that the figures support the fact that masks do a great deal to limit the spread, so the sensible ones amongst us do our bit by suffering the slight inconvenience of wearing them. On this point at least, I think the government is wrong - they should be mandatory.

 

[EFLImpudence]

No...

On this point at least, I think the government is wrong

Ok. I see.

Completely different than people who think they are wrong on other points.