How to re-wire this very old lamp

[potato80]

Hi all

I want to re-wire this 3-bulb lamp which has very old European/American wiring.

Question: I can obviously unscrew the wires at the bulbs and probably then pull out the wiring from the base, but how would I then drive new wiring back up the base and back into each of the curved arms?

I also can't figure out how the single wire at the base 'splits' into the 3 arms, which each have their own wires.

Perhaps I can peel off the base board to reveal something more accessible?

Any ideas?

Thanks

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

I also can't figure out how the single wire at the base 'splits' into the 3 arms, which each have their own wires.

Perhaps I can peel off the base board to reveal something more accessible?

There will be a joint somewhere, maybe under the base board you mention, or under the brass plate where the arms terminate. It's certainly not fit as is, to be used on the UK system. You need to wire it with three core flex, with the green/yellow bolted to the metal base. You will need to completely disassemble it to gain access to the open ends of the tube, the poke a thin wire down the tube, to 'fish' the flex through.

The lamps and lamp holder are an entirely separate problem.

 

[potato80]

Really helpful, thanks

I figure as I pull out the old wiring, I could pull some new wiring into it

But, either way, I've gotta remove some part to get the earth connected properly

 

[flameport]

USA item. New lampholders will be required as well as rewiring.

 

[winston1]

USA item. New lampholders will be required as well as rewiring.

Maybe, maybe not. US uses E26 lampholders as against European E27. But in practice E27 lamps often fit US lampholders.

 

[potato80]

This is niche but very useful info. Thanks! I'll give an e27 a bash tomorrow just to see if it fits

 

[Sureitsoff?]

Why is it that American electrical items always look dangerous? Their socket outlets tend to have the terminal on the side and exposed unlike our stuff that has tunnels for the cables and enclosed screws!

 

[flameport]

I'll give an e27 a bash tomorrow just to see if it fits

Whether it fits isn't the problem - those USA lampholders will be rated for 120V and therefore not suitable for use at 230V.

 

[333rocky333]

Maybe, maybe not. US uses E26 lampholders as against European E27. But in practice E27 lamps often fit US lampholders.

Even if they fit, are you condoning using lampholders with exposed live parts

 

[333rocky333]

This is niche but very useful info. Thanks! I'll give an e27 a bash tomorrow just to see if it fits

E27 stands for 27mm, your holders look half that size

Depending on the thread size, i would bin them holders and brackets and use 10 mm lighting bar and adapters and nuts to replace it and mount E14 holders that hopefully slide inside your existing candle drip covers.
Get E14 holders with a metal earth tab and this will in turn earth the fitting, using 3 cores of cable.
Use the old wires to pull in new ones, if hard or come off, use a small jewelery strong chain and this will self feed through the fitting then strap on your wire

 

[potato80]

E27 stands for 27mm, your holders look half that size

Depending on the thread size, i would bin them holders and brackets and use 10 mm lighting bar and adapters and nuts to replace it and mount E14 holders that hopefully slide inside your existing candle drip covers.
Get E14 holders with a metal earth tab and this will in turn earth the fitting, using 3 cores of cable.
Use the old wires to pull in new ones, if hard or come off, use a small jewelery strong chain and this will self feed through the fitting then strap on your wire

Thank you, that's really useful. I understand all of it, but what is a "10mm lighting bar and adapter"? Google search throwing up too many options! D'you mean like a hole threaded bar? Thank you again, really helpful

 

[333rocky333]

Yes its 10mm steel pipe, with an external thread and has a hole through it, lighting uses a special thread pitch, hence i call it lighting bar, that will mount the holder a few inches higher to replace that bracket, the adapters are like couplers but have an internal thread,, use them to fix your new thread to the existing stump of thread on your lights, however they may not be 10mm and need a thread adapter.
Most bits can be found on ebay too.


https://s-lilley.co.uk/?q=products&page=3

https://www.google.com/search?q=10m...30j0i390l5.10376j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

https://www.lampsandlights.co.uk/product-category/lighting-components/

 

[Adam_151]

Why is it that American electrical items always look dangerous? Their socket outlets tend to have the terminal on the side and exposed unlike our stuff that has tunnels for the cables and enclosed screws!

Especially their boards, even the modern ones look like the old federal stuff we have been ripping out for a quarter of a centuary, and if you look at the time/current data most breakers worked at at effectivly a type 4, but that doesn't matter as they don't test over there, they do end up with cable faults fizzing for long enough to start fires though, and the solution was AFDDs rather than fix the fault protection situation.

 

[FrodoOne]

Why is it that American electrical items always look dangerous? Their socket outlets tend to have the terminal on the side and exposed unlike our stuff that has tunnels for the cables and enclosed screws!

Yes.
North American socket-outlets and switches, "approved" by the various "testing laboratories" (which is a requirement there, if one has any vague hope of collecting insurance if a device fails) MUST be tested and approved by such organisations.
This costs the "manufacturer" or supplier a significant number of dollars - for each device so "approved".

Of course, these "laboratories" (such as "UL") keep on approving devices with exposed side terminals, which (probably) would not be allowed to be installed in any (other) OECD country if electrical devices were to be invented "today".

"our stuff that has tunnels for the cables and enclosed screws" and is much safer and has less potential for "loose connections" than does the "flat underside" screws used in the USA to connect the "solid" wires required", because with "Tunnel Type" connectors one can bare down in the wire(s) concerned.
(I am biased, because all cables actually used in Australia - above 1 mm² - use "stranded" conductors.)

Between 10 and 20 years ago, the US regulators realised that they had a problem with "loose connections" and introduced a requirement that electricians and others must use a "Torque Screwdriver", so that the screws concerned could be tightened to the "required" torque (which, although it is "officially" set in Newton.metres is usually referred to in Inch.Pounds - rather than N.m)
(Many sections of the US Government "public service" ARE trying to transit to SI, although many US politicians are still truing to "sabotage" any such efforts.)

A requirement to use "Arc Fault Circuit Interrupters" (AFCIs) at the "Panel" for "protection" on certain circuits was also introduced, ostensibly because of "electric blanket" problems.
However, it was then realised that these AFCI devices were picking up many other faults, due to "loose connections".

So, the US regulators added more requirements for devices to trip/disconnect when faults were detected by these devices but did nothing to restrict/eliminate the devices which may have been causing the problems.
Meanwhile, because only ONE solid wire may be placed under these "side terminals" of the socket- outlets and switches, it is there necessary to use other connectors, with "pig tails", if one needs to connect two or more conductors to the one terminal.
These other connectors are usually "screw on connectors" (commonalty called "wire nuts"), which are not allowed in Australia and I doubt that they are allowed in the EU (or the UK). (Please advise.)
These "wire nuts" are tightened by hand without the use of any tool and the adequacy (or otherwise) of any resulting connection cannot be determined !
Contrast this with https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Australian_Set_Screw_Connectors.jpg which (now) use transparent plastic and the quality of the connection can thus easily be determined.

However, Wago 221 and 222 connectors are available in the USA and are slowly gaining ground.

North America now goes on with increasing the use of AFCI devices, but with still allowing "Wire Nuts", and mandating the use of Ground Fault Circuit Interrupters (GFCI) (which are RCDs) in certain situations.
However, there it is still allowed to place the GFCI at the first Socket-Outlet on the Radial concerned and it is NOT required to place it at the Panel/CU, leaving the cable from the Panel/CU to the first Socket-Outlet "unprotected" for Residual Current faults.
(Yes, I do know that such "protection" is for the user/builder/uneducated operative and others but not related to "overload" of any "protection device" concerned.)
(Haven forbid that any one in the USA might need to go to the Panel/CU to reset any Breaker !)

Whether it fits isn't the problem - those USA lampholders will be rated for 120V and therefore not suitable for use at 230V.

Maybe and maybe not.
Most US "lamp holders" and other such devices since WWII are usually rated above 120 V and (generally) in the 400 V to 600 V range.
This is because most of these devices now come from China (which persons in the USA do not like to admit), where such devices are made for "world wide" distribution and making a sub-set of only 120 V rated devices is not an economic option.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

These other connectors are usually "screw on connectors" (commonalty called "wire nuts"), which are not allowed in Australia and I doubt that they are allowed in the EU (or the UK). (Please advise.)

They are not allowed in the UK now, they used to be allowed back in the 1960's and called 'screw its', in a porcelain material. The modern version is plastic.