W.C/Bathroom Lights & Extractor

[DIYLuke]

Hi All,

Many thanks in advance for any help and support.

This issue has literally been doing my head in for a week now.

I am renovating an old property so am unable to clarify the exact wiring within the ceiling void. Nonetheless, please see issue below with associated wiring diagram:

I have a separate toilet and bathroom - each with it’s only light and switch.

I have installed an in-line extractor fan that vents both rooms and has a feed going to each of the lamps.

The switches were originally double pole and so the scenario of turning each light on (and subsequently the extractor) worked perfect. However, I have had to change the switches as I needed IP rates switches (and was using the Quinetic system).

The Quinetic switches don’t come in a double pole version so I have wired the switch lives for both the lights and extractor into the same terminal for them to come on at the same time. For some reason, depending on which scenario I wire at the lamp, I have an issue whereby when turning one of the light on turns the other room on at the same time.

I have also wired 2 gang switches and separated the lights from the extractor, however upon turning the extractor on from one of the rooms turns the light on in the other.

It’s so baffling … any help would be so appreciated.

Many thanks,

Luke

 

[EFLImpudence]

Firstly, why do you need so-called IP rated switches and what rating do you require and where did you find them?

Everything has an IP rating even if it would be IP00.

 

[DIYLuke]

Firstly, why do you need so-called IP rated switches and what rating do you require and where did you find them?

Everything has an IP rating even if it would be IP00.

Hi,

Switches are in bathroom and toilet. Not water resistant so just be cautious. Haven’t got an ability to put pull cord in because of where switch cable is (unless I chase out) … so using the Quinetic system.

Many thanks

 

[EFLImpudence]

Ordinary switches - none of which are given IP ratings - are allowed in bathrooms as long as >600mm. from edge of bath/shower OR >2.25m. from floor.
Toilets have no restrictions.

Presumably you would normally require relays to enable two switches to do one thing separately (lights) and another thing jointly (fan).

Can the Quinetic switches and receivers do that?
If you have the fan connected to both receivers and one light on each then they will work together.

Perhaps someone else will know.

 

[DIYLuke]

Ordinary switches - none of which are given IP ratings - are allowed in bathrooms as long as >600mm. from edge of bath/shower OR >2.25m. from floor.
Toilets have no restrictions.

Presumably you would normally require relays to enable two switches to do one thing separately (lights) and another thing jointly (fan).

Can the Quinetic switches and receivers do that?
If you have the fan connected to both receivers and one light on each then they will work together.

Perhaps someone else will know.

Hi,

Understood on the requirements, however the switch is closer than 600m.

Understood on the toilet non-reg … however just looking to install for peace of mind.

Your point you make about relays I assume is what the double pole facility for the switches did?

It would seem wiring with the Quinetic switches that a circuit is being created somewhere … however I can’t see where?

There is one receiver connected to the lamp/switch and fan … but the one room is turning the other on.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Which type of switch do you have? I now see there are more types than I thought.

Also, while here, is it a timer fan with run-on after light off?

 

[flameport]

It would seem wiring with the Quinetic switches that a circuit is being created somewhere … however I can’t see where?

Both lights are connected to the same fan. If one is on, so is the other one via the fan as both switch lines are connected together.

If you want to use the wireless switches you need 2 on/off receivers and 1 momentary receiver.
The on/off receivers are used for the light in each room
The momentary receiver is used for the switched input to the fan.
The switches are paired to the corresponding light receiver and the fan.

Pressing the switch will turn the light on and also send the start signal to the fan.
Press the switch again to turn the light off, and also send another start signal to the fan so that the fan runs for the required time after the light is off.
The only minor problem with this is that if the light is left on for a long time, the fan will stop after the timer.

Or just install standard wired double pole switches in each room.

 

[DIYLuke]

Which type of switch do you have? I now see there are more types than I thought.

Also, while here, is it a timer fan with run-on after light off?

*See photos*

The in-line fan has a run on. It has two ducts venting the separate toilet and bathroom.

At the isolator is two 4 core cables (live/neutral/extractor switch live and earth) - wired into the isolator terminals together because of the two separate rooms.

I am trying different things so I have the Quinetic receiver attached to the light in the bathroom (and a two gang wireless switch (wired as a one way) for that receiver.

In the toilet room I have wired a double pole switch (normal), a one gang two way switch, a Quinetic two gang switch with inbuilt receiver.

The outcome is as follows:

Bathroom wireless switch turns both light and fan on (great!) … the toilet when wired as a 2 gang turns the light on but when turning on the extractor - turns the bathroom light on

I have attached the wiring diagram from Quinetic for the receiver set up in the bathroom

 

[DIYLuke]

Both lights are connected to the same fan. If one is on, so is the other one via the fan as both switch lines are connected together.

If you want to use the wireless switches you need 2 on/off receivers and 1 momentary receiver.
The on/off receivers are used for the light in each room
The momentary receiver is used for the switched input to the fan.
The switches are paired to the corresponding light receiver and the fan.

Pressing the switch will turn the light on and also send the start signal to the fan.
Press the switch again to turn the light off, and also send another start signal to the fan so that the fan runs for the required time after the light is off.
The only minor problem with this is that if the light is left on for a long time, the fan will stop after the timer.

Or just install standard wired double pole switches in each room.

 

[DIYLuke]

Both lights are connected to the same fan. If one is on, so is the other one via the fan as both switch lines are connected together.

If you want to use the wireless switches you need 2 on/off receivers and 1 momentary receiver.
The on/off receivers are used for the light in each room
The momentary receiver is used for the switched input to the fan.
The switches are paired to the corresponding light receiver and the fan.

Pressing the switch will turn the light on and also send the start signal to the fan.
Press the switch again to turn the light off, and also send another start signal to the fan so that the fan runs for the required time after the light is off.
The only minor problem with this is that if the light is left on for a long time, the fan will stop after the timer.

Or just install standard wired double pole switches in each room.

Hi,

Sorry I didn’t see this reply … many thanks.

Explanation makes sense … so the fact the switch lines are connected is creating the circuit at the fan, hence turning the light on in both rooms.

Noted on the receivers. I was wondering if 4 receivers (1 for each light and 1 for each fan switch line) would simply solve the issue allowing for a pairing of each to a 2 gang in each room?

What is a momentary receiver? Is this better than wiring separate receivers to each load? Why does the fan turn off with the light being on for a prolonged time in this scenario?

I was contemplating just going down the double pole route … just means a bit of work chopping out etc … plus my switch cable for the bathroom is in a bit of a random place

 

[EFLImpudence]

Noted on the receivers. I was wondering if 4 receivers (1 for each light and 1 for each fan switch line) would simply solve the issue allowing for a pairing of each to a 2 gang in each room?

I was thinking that.
I wouldn't think the back-feed from the 'on' fan controller to the other 'off' one would be a problem but I'm not positive.
Other than that it would work.


If I may try to answer these points:

What is a momentary receiver?

It would be a receiver that only powered the item 'momentarily'; i.e. a very short time. It would start the fan timer.
I am not sure why such a thing would be useful. Presumably in place of a momentary switch for some reason.

Is this better than wiring separate receivers to each load?

I don't think so.

Why does the fan turn off with the light being on for a prolonged time in this scenario?

The fan would go off after its set over-run time - 20 minutes? - unless you turned the light off and on again.

 

[DIYLuke]

I was thinking that.
I wouldn't think the back-feed from the 'on' fan controller to the other 'off' one would be a problem but I'm not positive.
Other than that it would work.


If I may try to answer these points:

It would be a receiver that only powered the item 'momentarily'; i.e. a very short time. It would start the fan timer.
I am not sure why such a thing would be useful. Presumably in place of a momentary switch for some reason.


I don't think so.


The fan would go off after its set over-run time - 20 minutes? - unless you turned the light off and on again.

Thanks for replying

I know what you mean about the back feed … I couldn’t quite get my head around where the circuit was being created.

I did some reading on the momentary receiver and noted it was for persistant button pressing actions (blinds/shutters etc) … the overrun is only set at 5 minutes at the moment and I think has a top of 20 minutes. So it would seem that wiring separate receivers for the circuit may be the better way (don’t know if there’s an agreement there).

 

[EFLImpudence]

You could contact Quinetic and ask them. Please let us know the reply if you do.

 

[DIYLuke]

You could contact Quinetic and ask them. Please let us know the reply if you do.

About as useful as a chocolate teapot

 

[DIYLuke]

You could contact Quinetic and ask them. Please let us know the reply if you do.

[SOLVED]

So it’s taken a bit of fiddling about but have eventually sorted the above problem out to allow a separate toilet and shower room to be controlled by Quinetic wireless switches.

As per above recommendations … the switch lives can’t be crossed together because a circuit was being created at the fan … so in essence, a switch from either room control the light in the other.

Because there are the individual lamps and a separate cable feeding the extractor to each room … I was able to connect an individual receiver to each load (2 x lights and 2 x extractor feeds). These have just been hidden in the ceiling.

Even better … I thought I would therefore have to control the extractor on a separate switch in a two gang setup … however you can press the pairing button on both receivers in the respective rooms and paid to a single switch. This creating a double pole scenario In essence.

Thanks for everyone’s advice.