PM hopeful Truss blamed YOU for Britain's failure
- Thread starter JP_
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"That would be an EcUmenical matter."
If no-one else was asked for ID, it stands to reason that a suicide bomber wouldn't be either.
You can't stop and ask for ID from all those you think might be suicide bombers, while allowing everyone else to pass unhindered.
YES YOU CAN. That’s what security guards are there for.
So, an Asian in a puffer jacket on a warm night struggling to carry what looks like a backpack full of bricks at an Ariana Grande concert should not be challenged? How silly of me. Sadly, the person that had the suspicions was frightened to challenge him because of too many people like you championing the right for people like the bomber to move freely amongst us unchallenged and for people who are there to protect us not to be able to use their common sense, suspicion and instinct for fear of being called a racist.
You are part of the problem. Shame on you and your ilk with overuse of the racist card.
Security guard ignored Ariana Grande concert bomber in fear he’d be called a racist
Kyle Lawler, then 18 and paid just $5.50 an hour, had been alerted to a suspicious-looking Salman Abedi sitting near an exit to the Manchester Arena with a big bag and dressed in heavy clothing.
nypost.com
"A security guard at the 2017 Ariana Grande show where 22 fans were slaughtered has admitted having a “bad feeling” when he saw the suicide bomber minutes before the attack — but didn’t do anything because he feared being branded racist, he told a public inquiry.
Kyle Lawler, then 18 and paid just $5.50 an hour, had been alerted to a suspicious-looking Salman Abedi sitting near an exit to the Manchester Arena with a big bag and dressed in heavy clothing on a hot May night, he told a public inquiryinto the attack.
As Lawler and a colleague watched the 22-year-old terrorist from 10 feet away, Abedi “became fidgety” and tried to avoid eye contact, Lawler recalled.
“I just had a bad feeling about him … I felt something was wrong,” Lawler told the hearing, saying he felt “conflicted” because even though he “felt that he did not belong there” he “did not know why.”"
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I sort of understand the point of your post, but expecting somebody on less than minimum wage to ensure safety and security is where your point falls over. If he had an I d card would that low paid member of staff been allowed to search him?YES YOU CAN. That’s what security guards are there for.
So, an Asian in a puffer jacket on a warm night struggling to carry what looks like a backpack full of bricks at an Ariana Grande concert should not be challenged? How silly of me. Sadly, the person that had the suspicions was frightened to challenge him because of too many people like you championing the right for people like the bomber to move freely amongst us unchallenged and for people who are there to protect us not to be able to use their common sense, suspicion and instinct for fear of being called a racist.
You are part of the problem. Shame on you and your ilk with overuse of the racist card.
Security guard ignored Ariana Grande concert bomber in fear he’d be called a racist
Kyle Lawler, then 18 and paid just $5.50 an hour, had been alerted to a suspicious-looking Salman Abedi sitting near an exit to the Manchester Arena with a big bag and dressed in heavy clothing.
"A security guard at the 2017 Ariana Grande show where 22 fans were slaughtered has admitted having a “bad feeling” when he saw the suicide bomber minutes before the attack — but didn’t do anything because he feared being branded racist, he told a public inquiry.
Kyle Lawler, then 18 and paid just $5.50 an hour, had been alerted to a suspicious-looking Salman Abedi sitting near an exit to the Manchester Arena with a big bag and dressed in heavy clothing on a hot May night, he told a public inquiryinto the attack.
As Lawler and a colleague watched the 22-year-old terrorist from 10 feet away, Abedi “became fidgety” and tried to avoid eye contact, Lawler recalled.
“I just had a bad feeling about him … I felt something was wrong,” Lawler told the hearing, saying he felt “conflicted” because even though he “felt that he did not belong there” he “did not know why.”"
lack of police and well paid experienced security staff was the real problem
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+1.
But steady with the Police.
I imagine shows like this make a fair profit. They shouldn't expect the police to subsidise the event.
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Also, how would an ID card help? If the police stopped him, then they could ID him, but they didn't. A security guard would not have access to the national database to check him out. And, if a first time act from an unknown, then there'd be no record. But, most importantly, if he was searched, they would have found the bomb before the ID card ...
As others have said, you can hardly expect an 18 year old on £5.50 an hour to make life-threatening decisions.YES YOU CAN. That’s what security guards are there for.
So, an Asian in a puffer jacket on a warm night struggling to carry what looks like a backpack full of bricks at an Ariana Grande concert should not be challenged? How silly of me. Sadly, the person that had the suspicions was frightened to challenge him because of too many people like you championing the right for people like the bomber to move freely amongst us unchallenged and for people who are there to protect us not to be able to use their common sense, suspicion and instinct for fear of being called a racist.
You are part of the problem. Shame on you and your ilk with overuse of the racist card.
Security guard ignored Ariana Grande concert bomber in fear he’d be called a racist
Kyle Lawler, then 18 and paid just $5.50 an hour, had been alerted to a suspicious-looking Salman Abedi sitting near an exit to the Manchester Arena with a big bag and dressed in heavy clothing.
"A security guard at the 2017 Ariana Grande show where 22 fans were slaughtered has admitted having a “bad feeling” when he saw the suicide bomber minutes before the attack — but didn’t do anything because he feared being branded racist, he told a public inquiry.
Kyle Lawler, then 18 and paid just $5.50 an hour, had been alerted to a suspicious-looking Salman Abedi sitting near an exit to the Manchester Arena with a big bag and dressed in heavy clothing on a hot May night, he told a public inquiryinto the attack.
As Lawler and a colleague watched the 22-year-old terrorist from 10 feet away, Abedi “became fidgety” and tried to avoid eye contact, Lawler recalled.
“I just had a bad feeling about him … I felt something was wrong,” Lawler told the hearing, saying he felt “conflicted” because even though he “felt that he did not belong there” he “did not know why.”"
As others have said, even if he had been asked for his ID (and may I remind you, you used this example as an issue over ID cards), that ID could not have been checked, it could have been someone else's, and the security guard would not have the authority to search him
In addition you're weaving a fair amount more detail than your original, including previous and other suspicions raised, large backpack, etc:
You're subtly switching your argument about ID cards to make unfounded accusation about my arguments and my character.
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The biggest problem with ID cards is that so many people will refuse to carry them it will be pointless. Criminals are not going to carry them, and those that oppose them will "forget" to put them in their pocket. The police will waste more time chasing after people for not having an ID card, meaning less time to investigate and deal with crime.
Also, I've yet to find a single example of a country that has benefited from having them.
Most countries with compulsory cards are outside of Europe / the west. Germany is an exception, but people need only have an ID card or a passport, and neither need to be carried. This sounds like a sensible approach.
Also, I've yet to find a single example of a country that has benefited from having them.
Most countries with compulsory cards are outside of Europe / the west. Germany is an exception, but people need only have an ID card or a passport, and neither need to be carried. This sounds like a sensible approach.
I believe ID cards are thought to help afterwards, when investigating, or maybe before hand when they are keeping an eye on persons of interest.
I don't believe it would have helped on the night. Like you say, if he was searched, they'd have found the bomb anyway.
I think the benefits do not outweigh the drawbacks.
If approached he may have just let the bomb off anyway. Rather likely - I would have thought anyway.
If it was another type of bomber they might carry a bomb in, leave it and then depart. That might be spotted and something done about it. Some one intent on blowing themselves up as well isn't so easy to deal with. If I remember correctly this bloke was.
One answer tried in London. Hope I remember correctly. Some one shot by an armed officer. Turned out he had no bomb.
If it was another type of bomber they might carry a bomb in, leave it and then depart. That might be spotted and something done about it. Some one intent on blowing themselves up as well isn't so easy to deal with. If I remember correctly this bloke was.
One answer tried in London. Hope I remember correctly. Some one shot by an armed officer. Turned out he had no bomb.
Truss is just appealing to the arm waving gammon codgers. They are the ones who make the decisions, rightly or wrongly.
D
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And you are talking out of your arse, yet again, as per usual. When I served my time there were no NVQs. None. Zero. I was awarded City & Guilds qualifications in my subkject areas. In order subsequently to obtain my CSCS card, required if you work on a construction site operated by one of the major contractors group, I had to hold NVQs. City & Guilds qualifications were not accepted. So as a C&G qualification holder who qualified before NVQs existed I was required to do an on-site assessment (and training) referred to as an OSAT in order to be awarded an "appropriate" NVQ. I know a number of others who also went through this process. This complete ****** of a system has been running for 20+ years. Yes, people doing C&Gs these days are more or less automatically awarded NVQ, but that wasn't always the case. As it happens a lot of people being awarded NVQs in construction these days haven't followed a C&G syllabus, but instead have undertaken an abbreviated training course. Which is why an NVQ is not the same as a C&G qualification. You aren't the only one who has had apprentices, you know
You have a City & Guilds technical qualification as do I. I have a distinction that I got around 1978. It was a theory based qualification. My vocational proof was in the form of my apprentice log-book and my skills testing certificate which gave me my national craftsmen certificate. I'm not familiar with the CSCS but the fact that you couldn’t get a CSCS card with your 'City & Guilds' and needed an NVQ should demonstrate to you the worth of your technical qualification verses a vocational one in the real world. I won’t waste my breath arguing with you but in case you are not aware, I am the owner of a training company. Before that I was a manager of City and Guilds training centre for 15 years. My company is an accredited the City & Guilds training centre and has been since 2010. I think I know what I am talking about. What do you do for a living that makes you feel qualified to argue about City & Guilds qualifications structure?
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