Is the "Smart" meter role out being done ready for another Winter of discontent.

[ericmark]

Without that necessary thought, my first intuitive reaction was that the 'export VD' ought to reduce (maybe even 'cancel') the import VD' - but that may well be all wrong!!

That clearly is the case where the power is being used local at low voltage, one neighbour exports and another imports so they cancel each other out. The problem arises where the export exceeds the import.

If we all work nights, so car is charged during the day, while the solar panel is supplying, it could work, but we don't work nights, so the homes have a peak usage at around 5 to 7 pm as EV's are put on charge, and evening meal is cooked in the Winter months, and at 9 am to 4 pm the solar panels are producing but little being used, the whole system is being turned on it's head.

And to compound the problem we are starting to work from home, which can work both ways, it can result in some use of the micro generated power, but means there is not only a difference weekend to weekday, but each day of the week can be different, where people and firms select which days to work from home, so near impossible to plan what is going to be required.

My daughter has said how working from home increased the heating required, but reduced transport costs, until she started using a bike to go to work, cycling every day to work for 5 days was too much, but every other day, has changed so much.

And it is the uncertainty as so many things are changing at the same time, Colvid has reduced, so now I can consider returning to use public transport, with both Brexit and Colvid so much has changed, no one has a clue what will happen.

 

[JohnW2]

That clearly is the case where the power is being used local at low voltage, one neighbour exports and another imports so they cancel each other out. The problem arises where the export exceeds the import.

As I said, I still need to think to get my head around this, but are we not currently still quite a long way from the point at which it's likely that export will ever exceed import across a whole group of installations? The most recent estimate I saw was that there are about 970,000 domestic PV installations in UK, so only about 3.5% of the ~28 million 'households'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Obviously the fire-alarm & intruder alarms would ride thru a 4/5/6 hrs power cut with no issues, but the UPS's supporting our Servers would not. Nor would the ones supporting our networking switches etc. Most UPS systems are only intended to hold up for long enough to allow a graceful shutdown of systems - 20-30 min at the most - the wont deliver for 6 hrs. In any case the server room aircon will have shutdown so the servers need to shut off to stop the heat production.

What many companies did back in '78, was to install a standby generator, to cover for outages. A duty of one job I had, was one of going round, checking and firing up the standby generators, if they had remained unused for a while.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Having said that, even at December 2021, some 26 million 'smart' meters had been installed (nearly all in domestic installations), so the 'penetration' is already very high (there are only about 28 million 'domestic households' in UK)

From personal experience, I suspect a good many of those SM's, though still counted as installed, will no longer be accessible.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

EDIT I hadn't seen Winston1's post

You must be the only one who bothers to read them.

 

[JohnW2]

From personal experience, I suspect a good many of those SM's, though still counted as installed, will no longer be accessible.

That may well be true, but I think one would struggle to find any published data about how many are actually 'working'(as 'smart' meters)!

I would certainly 'wish good luck' to anyone who tried to get one to work (communication-wise) in my house

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

As I said, I still need to think to get my head around this, but are we not currently still quite a long way from the point at which it's likely that export will ever exceed import across a whole group of installations? The most recent estimate I saw was that there are about 970,000 domestic PV installations in UK, so only about 3.5% of the ~28 million 'households'.

Kind Regards, John

Electricity: Lack of capacity 'holds back green energy'

Lack of capacity on National Grid is a big barrier to hopes of producing clean energy, it's claimed.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

That may well be true, but I think one would struggle to find any published data about how many are actually 'working'(as 'smart' meters)!

I would certainly 'wish good luck' to anyone who tried to get one to work (communication-wise) in my house

I'm in a weird situation, so far as I can make out, with BG, who took over my supply when my supplier went bust. My SM's have not worked as smart now for several years. BG initially suggested they could not access them, then a few weeks ago the gas consumption cost began appearing on the indoor display and BG's site would no accept my manual gas readings. The next development, was BG's site would no longer accept my manual electric readings, but nothing showing on the indoor display for electric consumption.

What's actually happening, I don't know, because even their own billing system seems to have completely lost the plot - they have put bills on line for download, then they suddenly delete them as invalid. Chaos of the first order.

 

[JohnW2]

Electricity: Lack of capacity 'holds back green energy'

Lack of capacity on National Grid is a big barrier to hopes of producing clean energy, it's claimed.

www.bbc.co.uk

That article keeps saying things like "But we've got a major problem, and the problem is there isn't the capacity in the National Grid to take the electric produced down the line." without really giving any indication of what that actually means.

However, as I said, I would not think that we are yet anywhere near the point at which the amount of microgeneration represents a problem for the current distribution network, would you/

Kind Regards, John

 

[bernardgreen]

I would not think that we are yet anywhere near the point at which the amount of microgeneration represents a problem for the current distribution network, would you/

It might be closer than one thinks ( or is prepared to admit ).

Take the case where the micro-generation in an area is producing just enough to supply all the local requirement with no power flowing in or out of the local substation / transformer. Then ( in theory at least ) that local supply network could be disconnected from the zero loaded substation / transformer without any affect on the micro-generators in the area. Each micro-generator would continue to "see" a 50Hz supply of the correct voltage and hence continue to micro-generate,

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Each micro-generator would continue to "see" a 50Hz supply of the correct voltage and hence continue to micro-generate,

I'm missing what the problem might be, if it did that?

Do you perhaps mean it getting out of sync with the rest of the generated distribution?

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

I assume the implied problem is that they may have disconnected the area to do some work on the cables. I did read somewhere that there would be a drift in frequency which would stop the generation, but I'm not sure how/if that is guaranteed.

 

[JohnW2]

Take the case where the micro-generation in an area is producing just enough to supply all the local requirement with no power flowing in or out of the local substation / transformer. Then ( in theory at least ) that local supply network could be disconnected from the zero loaded substation / transformer without any affect on the micro-generators in the area. Each micro-generator would continue to "see" a 50Hz supply of the correct voltage and hence continue to micro-generate,

Indeed, but "so what?".

What you describe would seem to be an ideal and desirable 'grid-free' situation ... and I certainly can't see why it would be a problem in reltion to the 'capacity' of the distribution network (which is what I was talking about)

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

I assume the implied problem is that they may have disconnected the area to do some work on the cables.

I agree that could be an issue - but it's got nothing to do with the issue I was talking about - namely the claim in ertic's BBC article that some aspect of "the capacity of the network" was somehow limiting the amount of micro-generation that can be done.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

I agree that could be an issue - but it's got nothing to do with the issue I was talking about - namely the claim in ertic's BBC article that some aspect of "the capacity of the network" was somehow limiting the amount of micro-generation that can be done.

It will, where perhaps a remote farmer at the far end of a say 10Kw feed, wants to micro generate say 1Mw. They then need to themselves finance the upgrade of the supply back to what was the source.