I am a republican... but

[Justin Passing]

Even if it was a funeral for your relative?

No difference.

 

[opps]

You don't understand? I find that quite strange. Many of us (although not all) are social animals. That can display itself in people wanting to gather whether the underlying emotion is one of happiness, sadness, grief, anger, apathy, or a combo of all.

When someone of significance dies, if their coffin is driven through the streets, it's not uncommon for people to line said streets to pay their respects and/or simply to see the coffin go by.

Surely, whether you place importance on the Queen or not, you can understand why people want to pay their respects?

No, I don't understand. I am not being critical but I do wonder if part if it, for many people, not all, is the need to be seen to seen to be "mourning". I cried like a baby the day that Bowie died, I get the fact that people can be emotionally invested in others that they have never met, but I didn't have any urge to jump on the central line and travel to Heddon Street.

When friends have died, I have gone to the funeral, not for me, but because I want to show solidarity with their immediate family and friends- given that, perhaps I kind of understand. The key difference though is that I am showing solidarity to people that knew the departed very well. Like the other Bowie fans at Heddon Street, few of the people outside RAF Northolt knew the Queen.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

No, I don't understand. I am not being critical but I do wonder if part if it, for many people, not all, is the need to be seen to seen to be "mourning". I cried like a baby the day that Bowie died, I get the fact that people can be emotionally invested in others that they have never met, but I didn't have any urge to jump on the central line and travel to Heddon Street.

When friends have died, I have gone to the funeral, not for me, but because I want to show solidarity with their immediate family and friends- given that, perhaps I kind of understand. The key difference though is that I am showing solidarity to people that knew the departed very well. Like the other Bowie fans at Heddon Street, few of the people outside RAF Northolt knew the Queen.

But you're missing a key part of the discussion. Regardless of what you think, many people felt they did know the Queen and/or the Queen was a constant in their life. Now she's passed, they want to show their respect by lining the streets to see the coffin.

And yes, there will also be others that simply want to be there to witness the spectacle of it all.

I'm not saying this against you in an argumentative way, I can't understand how you can't understand that concept. Perhaps there's a part of your psyche that doesn't comprehend emotions, what they are, and how people display them?

People might not agree with the actions of those lining the streets, however that's surely different from understanding it?

 

[opps]

I'm not saying this against you in an argumentative way, I can't understand how you can't understand that concept. Perhaps there's a part of your psyche that doesn't comprehend emotions, what they are, and how people display them?

"I don't mean to be rude.... but."...

 

[ellal]

I assume royalists are happy with this?

"King Charles will not pay tax on the fortune he has inherited from the late Queen, although he has volunteered to follow his mother’s lead in paying income tax.

Under a clause agreed in 1993 by the then prime minister, John Major, any inheritance passed “sovereign to sovereign” avoids the 40% levy applied to assets valued at more than £325,000.

The crown estate has an estimated £15.2bn in assets, of which 25% of the profits are given to the royal family as the sovereign grant. The estate includes the royal archives and the royal collection of paintings, which are held by the monarch “in right of the crown”.

So the inheritance tax he has avoided is greater than the total inheritance tax paid by the entire country last year...

The duke of westminster did the same a few years back...

And 'volunteering to pay income tax' (however 'doctored')?

Anyone care to justify this?

 

[Odds]

I assume royalists are happy with this?

"King Charles will not pay tax on the fortune he has inherited from the late Queen, although he has volunteered to follow his mother’s lead in paying income tax.

Under a clause agreed in 1993 by the then prime minister, John Major, any inheritance passed “sovereign to sovereign” avoids the 40% levy applied to assets valued at more than £325,000.

The crown estate has an estimated £15.2bn in assets, of which 25% of the profits are given to the royal family as the sovereign grant. The estate includes the royal archives and the royal collection of paintings, which are held by the monarch “in right of the crown”.

So the inheritance tax he has avoided is greater than the total inheritance tax paid by the entire country last year...

The duke of westminster did the same a few years back...

And 'volunteering to pay income tax' (however 'doctored')?

Anyone care to justify this?

A perk of the job - like the billions stashed away in offshore accounts by politicians and businessmen.

 

[Pat ex]

There is another aspect that many may have ignored.
An awful lot of us are on some kind of spectrum to varying degrees, probably far more than any official figures indicate, and we all experience different emotions to many events. Such an event as a death of a friend, relative or even a figurehead, will affect us all differently.
For some it may be hardly noticeable, for others it can wreak havoc on their emotions, which may remain with them for the best part of their lives.

 

[Justin Passing]

The "understanding" thing reminds me of my mother not "understanding" why I wasn't a christian, though she only is when it suits her.

It certainly does not mean opps doesn't comprehend emotions.

A large part of going to funerals is (imho) just because it's the done thing.
If your dog died, you might feel intense emotion, but you probably wouldn't think of summoning everyone who'd met the dog, to do anything.

Funerals are largely about ritual. If my wife died, would I want to see remote aunts and friends of hers? No thank you.

Perhaps the people on the streets want to think that they're involved in a moment of history, and therefore important. What does "paying respects" mean, apart from boosting your own ego?

The church has a lot to answer for!

 

[diy_fun_uk]

There is another aspect that many may have ignored.
An awful lot of us are on some kind of spectrum to varying degrees, probably far more than any official figures indicate, and we all experience different emotions to many events. Such an event as a death of a friend, relative or even a figurehead, will affect us all differently.
For some it may be hardly noticeable, for others it can wreak havoc on their emotions, which may remain with them for the best part of their lives.

This is what I was politely hinting at with opps. As you say, whether folk are on a spectrum or not, we all experience emotions in different ways. I think if someone is saying they can't understand why people want to pay their respects in such ways, it perhaps indicates something about that person and how they compute emotions as opposed to the hundreds/thousands/millions that, in this case, choose to line the streets.

 

[JP_]

Yeah, no desire here to watch a Hearse drive by, or queue to file past the coffin. Never understood that. I'll raise a glass to the Queen, and do a little Long Live The King with another glass, but standing about for hours to watch a fancy delivery van, no thanks.

 

[ellal]

A perk of the job - like the billions stashed away in offshore accounts by politicians and businessmen.

Does that make it right?

 

[ellal]

This is what I was politely hinting at with opps. As you say, whether folk are on a spectrum or not, we all experience emotions in different ways. I think if someone is saying they can't understand why people want to pay their respects in such ways, it perhaps indicates something about that person and how they compute emotions as opposed to the hundreds/thousands/millions that, in this case, choose to line the streets.

Maybe the people who 'don't understand' the irrational herd mentality are actually a tad more able to think for themselves?

 

[opps]

There is another aspect that many may have ignored.
An awful lot of us are on some kind of spectrum to varying degrees, probably far more than any official figures indicate, and we all experience different emotions to many events. Such an event as a death of a friend, relative or even a figurehead, will affect us all differently.
For some it may be hardly noticeable, for others it can wreak havoc on their emotions, which may remain with them for the best part of their lives.

Surely, by definition, everyone is on "a/the" spectrum. It is after-all a linear progression.

 

[opps]

This is what I was politely hinting at with opps. As you say, whether folk are on a spectrum or not, we all experience emotions in different ways. I think if someone is saying they can't understand why people want to pay their respects in such ways, it perhaps indicates something about that person and how they compute emotions as opposed to the hundreds/thousands/millions that, in this case, choose to line the streets.

Your claim that your comment was "polite" could lead me to think that you do not understand what it means to offend someone...

Frankly, if I want to show my respect to someone, I (try) do it whilst they are alive, they aren't going to notice when they are dead. I still think a lot of what we are witnessing is the cult of celebrity. In the late 90's the royal family were extremely unpopular. Have they changed as people, or have they become better at managing (read: manipulating) their public image? Are people mourning something real or something that has been manufactured?

The day of Diana's funeral, I was waiting for a train at Euston to go to Brighton for a dirty weekend. Some fellow came over and gave me grief for daring to wear a bright yellow shirt. He claimed that I was being disrespectful. And nah, I didn't understand that either, in the same way that I don't emphasise with the likes of the 9/11 terrorists. They had millions of people celebrating their actions, am I flawed because I don't agree with their views?

 

[diy_fun_uk]

Maybe the people who 'don't understand' the irrational herd mentality are actually a tad more able to think for themselves?

It can be argued the high majority of 'the herd' have, at some point, thought for themselves, as individuals, from different locations, and decided they want to go to x place to pay their respects. When they get there, x 100s/1000s are also there, having reached the same decision. Call it herd mentality if you like, however it doesn't mean there wasn't individual thought at some point in the process.

I might find out a local person has died and, in light of all the good work they did for the community, their coffin will be driven through the local area. As an individual, sitting in my own home, I decide to go to one of the locations to pay my respects. When I get there, 200 other people have made the same decision. Not entirely convinced that makes us a 'herd' of people who can't think for ourselves.