Broadband and telephones

[monday]

This is really just curiosity but the upcoming 'digitisation' of telephones has made me anxious to understand.
My house was built 1997 as part of a small estate and all cabling is ducted. I understand we have full fibre to the street cabinet. We have a ducted BT telephone cable (presumably copper) connected to a Master Socket just inside the house. Originally there were wired sub-connections to telephone extensions elsewhere in the house but these are now disconnected/unused and we have wireless phones everywhere but at the master socket.
We have had Virgin Broadband for some years which is connected via a separate ducted cable to an upstairs router. (I understand that Virgin use some sort of quasi 'full fibre' which is not actually full fibre?) Our telephone is also Virgin. However, I still need a corded phone plugged in to the Master Socket for the system to work.
Recently we have been offered 'full fibre' broadband all the way to the house but this does not carry landline telephone which has to be an 'add on' by a separate service.
So what's going on? What is connected to what? What effect will the digitisation of land lines have? If our landline is provided by Virgin surely it is already digitised? So will this just switch off the power supply to the BT socket? In which case what happens to the corded phone attached to the BT socket.

Grateful for an idiot's guide as to how it all works!

 

[Mottie]

My mum recently had full Vodafone fibre to her house. They did away with the old phone line. She has a care alarm that worked over the old phone line as well as a cordless phone. I just plugged them both, via a filter, into the back of her modem and they both work fine. Obviously, they wouldn’t work in the event of a power cut but the phone companies assume everyone has a mobile phone these days.

 

[aveatry]

I think you have fibre to the cabinet in the street or the next and its copper from there to your house. Full fibre sometimes called FTTP fibre to the premises replaces that copper with fibre.
The issue is you need more electric sockets to run it. First the cable gos to a box on the outside of a wall -through into your house then connected to another box that needs power then a cable goes to your router - that also needs power, then some supplied routers have a telephone socket to plug directly in and then you will have digital voice over internet VOI. But not all routers have the phone socket so you then need a digital phone adapter that plugs into the router and will give you VOI BUT that also needs power, so you might need 3 power sockets.
Th other issue is that if you have wired equipment and not wifi then some routers -like the Eero only comes with 2 LAN sockets which you will need to use to add a phone adapter.
And yes if the power goes then you got no phone as far as I know if you have a care alarm then they will not fit you onto the fibre.

 

[Mottie]

And yes if the power goes then you got no phone as far as I know if you have a care alarm then they will not fit you onto the fibre.

Well they definitely ran a new fibre cable to my mums house and her care alarm works fine because we test it every now and then.

 

[Wayners]

Plug your phone in the virgin router
You may need an adapter which virgin will post for free.
All phones are being switched to supplied router now for both virgin and BT.
UK, landlines that don't use a router are being switched off and upgraded to digital technology by the end of 2027
My mother in law has just switched BT phone to router connection.
I'm trying to work out how to wire this new connection to the house phone wiring.
I guess this is all a problem for you though with your phone system?
I guess they will eventually turn off the phone cable power..

 

[aveatry]

Well they definitely ran a new fibre cable to my mums house and her care alarm works fine because we test it every now and then.

I am not sure what type of alarm to be honest but it was part of the questions that I saw when looking into it-- not sure if its because of it not working if the power go's off.
What router is it and who is it with.

 

[Diver Fred]

I know SFA about Virgin telecoms. Do know a little about OR/BT telecoms.
Speech is delivered in one of three formats, in age order as follows :-
1, (Analog) speech by means of a copper cable from the exchange (all speech from and through the exchange is digital - converted at the first point the copper cable connects to the exchange equipment).
2, Fibre To The Cabinet (FTTC) (the green boxes in the street - A.K.A. street furniture) where the digital speech carried in the fibre as digital light is converted from VoIP (Voice over Internet Protocol) to analog where it sent the last few hundred yards/metres by copper cable.
3, Fibre To The Premises (FTTP) where the firbre is suppled to the (your) house and is connected to A, an Optical Network Terminal then the port on that connects to the Router. The speech capable router converts the digital VoIP signal to analog speech or analog speech to VoIP for transmission to the distant party and generates the ringing signal to cause the 'phone bells to ring. The BT router has a 'phone socket for a corded 'phone to operate; it also a DECT signal (NOT WiFi) for digital cordless phones to work.

Formats 1 & 2 are approaching there end of life to be replaced by FTTP.

The internet (Broadband) signal is also carried by the above connections to the network.
With Format 1 the internet signal is added to the speech signal at a higher frequency, which is why the internet speed reduces the further away from the exchange the premises is.
With Format 2 again the internet signal is added to the speech signal again at a higher frequency but being closer to the premises the speed reduction is much less.
Withe Formats 1 & 2 the filter, plug in or NTE box, masks the Internet signal from the speech signal.
With Format 3 the conversion of both Speech and Internet is performed in the Premises in 2 steps :- a, by the ONT: b, by the router. The broadband speed is unaffected by the distance from the exchange.

Edit :- With Format 3 if you have an electric power cut to the ONT &/or router you will loose service. A battery back up will maintain service for a period.

 

[Mottie]

What router is it and who is it with.

It was a Vodafone router and on Vodafone broadband. She was already on Vodafone anyway but this was a free upgrade when her existing contract expired. I had the same a few weeks earlier but I didn’t get the full fibre upgrade as my street wasn’t cable ready apparently.

 

[Sureitsoff?]

Plug your phone in the virgin router
You may need an adapter which virgin will post for free.
All phones are being switched to supplied router now for both virgin and BT.
UK, landlines that don't use a router are being switched off and upgraded to digital technology by the end of 2027
My mother in law has just switched BT phone to router connection.
I'm trying to work out how to wire this new connection to the house phone wiring.
I guess this is all a problem for you though with your phone system?
I guess they will eventually turn off the phone cable power..

watch this for info

 

[big-all]

Well they definitely ran a new fibre cable to my mums house and her care alarm works fine because we test it every now and then.

easy enough to check just turn off the router to replicate a powercut and see if the phone /care alarm works ---i am almost 100% sure it wont but could be wrong

 

[bernardgreen]

UK, landlines that don't use a router are being switched off and upgraded to digital technology by the end of 2027

Upgrade ? It is a massive downgrade.......

From a reliable system based on simple but very effective methods to a system that cannot cope with power cuts or damage to road side cabinets.

A few years ago a car demolished a road side cabinet severing lines to about 100 customers. This cabinet was in reality nothing more than a junction box where a 100 pair cable from the exchange was split into several smaller cables.

Less than a hour later a couple of technicians had put in a few temporary patches to restore service to priority lines, ( phone box, doctor etc ) using jelly crimps and jumper wires

Full restoration on temporary patches was achieved within a few hours..

Eventually the cabinet was replaced.

There was no mains power in the cabinet, thus ensuring it was safe to start patching work without delay ( except for the possiblity of another careless driver )

With fibre systems there has to be mains power in the cabinet and patching of priority fibres cannot start until the DNO have disconnected the mains supply.

The electronic equipment in the cabinet is likely to need replacing and configuring. Temporary patches may not be possible until the electronic equypment has been replaced.

Splicing temporary fibre patches is not as easy as using terminal blocks to create temporary patches on a copper cable

 

[Wayners]

You can get a battery backup for internet phone. Not sure how well that will work as limited time. Mobile phones still work with a power cut as well.
Guess they call it progress. Is it though?

 

[aveatry]

Upgrade ? It is a massive downgrade.......

From a reliable system based on simple but very effective methods to a system that cannot cope with power cuts or damage to road side cabinets.

A few years ago a car demolished a road side cabinet severing lines to about 100 lines. This cabinet was in reality nothing more than a junction box where a 100 pair cable from the exchange was split into several smaller cables.

Less than a hour later a couple of technicians had put in a temporary patches to restore service to priority lines, ( phone box, doctor etc ) using jelly crimps and jumper wires

Full restoration on temporary patches was achieved within a few hours..

Eventually the cabinet was replaced.

There was no mains power in the cabinet, thus ensuring it was safe to start patching work without delay ( except for the possiblity of another careless driver )

With fibre systems there has to be mains power in the cabinet and patching of priority fibres cannot start until the DNO have disconnected the mains supply.

The electronic equipment in the cabinet is likely to need replacing and configured. Temporary patches may not be possible until the electronic equypment has been replaced.

Splicing temporary fibre patches is not as easy as using terminal blocks to create temporary patches on a copper cable

Exactly - its a stupid idea. I am not sure of the ultimate outcome but when you get things (upgrades ) for free then it triggers my spider sense - free smart meters - free road tax for E cars, free internet banking.
And I may have to end up using 3 power sockets AND when it is fitted they will not remove the OLD open reach cable from the post to my house so I will be stuck with 2. I am on 65mbs FTTC and that is plenty for me I dont need 150MBS

A warning for anyone being offered the Eero router it only has 2 ports on the back and you will need a extra phone adapter that also needs a power socket that adapter will take up 1 of the ports on the Eero. From what I read it is crap for wifi - yes its fast wifi but bad for going through walls and distance and is designed to be used as a "mesh" - so you have multiple ones around your house pushing the wifi around all needing a power socket.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Obviously, they wouldn’t work in the event of a power cut but the phone companies assume everyone has a mobile phone these days.

If the customer is 'at risk', they are obliged to provide a battery backup, for the modem, and there ought to be already backup at the cabinet/exchange.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

VoIP for transmission to the distant party and generates the ringing signal to cause the 'phone bells to ring. The BT router has a 'phone socket for a corded 'phone to operate; it also a DECT signal (NOT WiFi) for digital cordless phones to work.

My understanding is, that in addition to the VoIP adaptor thingummy, you also need to separately find and pay for a VoIP provider, an additional cost, on top of the Fibre broadband.