Is it any wonder kids minds are fecked?

[Deleted member 265726]

So to start with first principles. What prevents a cis man (you see I'm learning!) from going into a woman's changing room. Would that be some sort of criminal offence?

I won't talk in riddles but why would a man want to go into the woman's changing room in the first place? Men have their own facilities. In the case of a Dad with his daughter, there is normally a family changing room option in many settings, like at a swimming pool for example.

 

[MNW67]

I won't talk in riddles but why would a man want to go into the woman's changing room in the first place? Men have their own facilities. In the case of a Dad with his daughter, there is normally a family changing room option in many settings, like at a swimming pool for example.

I don't know. I'm just trying to work through it all methodically. But perhaps he's just a big pervert?

I am trying to understand what the current law is and whether it is criminal or civil or both.

 

[Deleted member 265726]

I don't know. I'm just trying to work through it all methodically. But perhaps he's just a big pervert?

Therein lies the problem doesn't it? If you let some men and boys into the designated areas for women and girls under 'gender identity' then you let them all in because 'gender identity' is so broad it carries no one definition. See Stonewall's LGBTQ terms upthread.

Men are biologically male however they identify. Women are biologically female however they identify.

 

[MNW67]

Therein lies the problem doesn't it? If you let some men and boys into the designated areas for women and girls under 'gender identity' then you let them all in because 'gender identity' is so broad it carries no one definition. See Stonewall's LGBTQ terms upthread.

Men are biologically male however they identify. Women are biologically female however they identify.

I've just been using Google. As far as I can tell it wouldn't be a criminal offence.

So I think we are looking at the situation where a biological male who is a trans identifying woman is banned from a woman's changing room, and then brings a claim for discrimination under the Equality Act. And according to that briefing I posted, that is the essence of the current debate over whether the law needs changing.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

Would you allow a young girl to use a mixed facility in France?

It depends what age and the circumstance.

 

[Deleted member 265726]

I've just been using Google. As far as I can tell it wouldn't be a criminal offence.

So I think we are looking at the situation where a biological male who is a trans identifying woman is banned from a woman's changing room, and then brings a claim for discrimination under the Equality Act. And according to that briefing I posted, that is the essence of the current debate over whether the law needs changing.

Yes.

The law does need changing. The lines have been blurred. A man who identifies differently is still a biological male and should be using the men's facilities and a woman who identifies differently is still a biological female and should be using the women's facilities. It should be made illegal to do otherwise imho.

 

[Odds]

It depends what age and the circumstance.

simple q. really. Would you allow a primary age girl to use a mixed facility?

 

[Deleted member 265726]

Either the Gender Recognition Act is repealed and the protected characteristic of 'gender' is removed from the Equality Act or the definition of 'sex' as a protected characteristic is strengthened to mean 'biological sex'.

Why won't Labour tidy up their mess so that everybody is left in no doubt about where the lines are?

 

[motorbiking]

In my gym, Children of the opposite sex are allowed to use the changing rooms up to the age of 7, I think. I have to say, I am slightly uncomfortable with it. I wouldn't want my 6 year old girl (not that I have one) changing for swimming lessons in a room full of naked adult men.

 

[MNW67]

Either the Gender Recognition Act is repealed and the protected characteristic of 'gender' is removed from the Equality Act or the definition of 'sex' as a protected characteristic is strengthened to mean 'biological sex'.

Why won't Labour tidy up their mess so that everybody is left in no doubt about where the lines are?

Have they definitely said they won't? According to that briefing, everyone is waiting for a court ruling.

 

[Deleted member 265726]

Have they definitely said they won't? According to that briefing, everyone is waiting for a court ruling.

Who knows.

 

[Deleted member 265726]

In my gym, Children of the opposite sex are allowed to use the changing rooms up to the age of 7, I think. I have to say, I am slightly uncomfortable with it. I wouldn't want my 6 year old girl (not that I have one) changing for swimming lessons in a room full of naked adult men.

Why the ffing f would you want your little girls getting undressed with strange unknown men??? What's wrong with these mothers?!?

 

[MNW67]

Already answered so deleted.

 

[MNW67]

Yes.

The law does need changing. The lines have been blurred. A man who identifies differently is still a biological male and should be using the men's facilities and a woman who identifies differently is still a biological female and should be using the women's facilities. It should be made illegal to do otherwise imho.

As it stands at the moment, it seems to come down to whether or not the trans woman has a gender recognition certificate. If there is no GRC, then they can be banned from using a womens changing room, and they can't claim discrimination. The grey area is if there is a GRC. The Supreme Court are currently deciding whether in that situation there can be a discrimination claim.

 

[Deleted member 265726]

As it stands at the moment, it seems to come down to whether or not the trans woman has a gender recognition certificate. If there is no GRC, then they can be banned from using a womens changing room, and they can't claim discrimination. The grey area is if there is a GRC. The Supreme Court are currently deciding whether in that situation there can be a discrimination claim.

A gender recognition certificate is a fiver and requires nobody to have had any surgery. Yep, pecker intact.