Poss To Add Radial Circuit To Fuse Box?

[flameport]

The last one I added was for a rise & fall hospital bed, if the stand alone RCD tripped she would be trapped in whatever position the bed was in

With no RCD and a fault occurs they could be electrocuted, burned to death or both.

Which is it to be?
Supposedly 'trapped' in this bed contraption for a certain amount of time
Or dead.

 

[crystal ball]

With no RCD and a fault occurs they could be electrocuted, burned to death or both.

Which is it to be?
Supposedly 'trapped' in this bed contraption for a certain amount of time
Or dead.

The fuse will clear any fault, give me your number and I will add it to the on call list

 

[bernardgreen]

With no RCD and a fault occurs they could be electrocuted, burned to death or both.

If there is an RCD and a fault then creates a hot spot in the bed that does not involve the CPC ( the earth wire ) then the bed could catch fire. The RCD would NOT trip until the fire damage to the bed involved the CPC

 

[ericmark]

I had this with a stair lift, mother's had a hole where you could put a drill with a socket and wind the chair to where required in an emergency. Fathers-in-law's they would not tell me how to release his German stair lift to get it off the stairs, they said to phone their agents, 12 miles away, not sure if he could wait ¾ hour to go to the loo. Not talking about riding on the lift, just getting it off the stairs.

So yes we need to consider all the risks, not simply the risk of getting an electric shock, but my mother's bed is now mine, and it has a special plug with some sort of trip in it, not sure if overload or RCD, but I have come to use the bed, and it would not work because the plug had tripped, however my electric reclining chairs have a pair of PP3 batteries, so one can put it down in the case of a power cut. And if you need to be able to use the bed during a power cut, then the controls should be battery backed, just like the chair.

An RCD FCU or an RCD socket is not super expensive, and as said many times, we can have a DNO power failure, so if you rely on the power, then it should be battery backed, so I have two double RCD sockets, which feed my freezers, I do not feel there is a problem with this, the likelihood of something tripping an RCD built into a socket in error is very slim.

But to say with a risk assessment better to not have an RCD, the supply would need to be uninterruptible to start with. The stair lifts ran off two 12 volt batteries, so they were battery backed, the problem with the German stair lift was there was no warning that it had been unplugged.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

If it was really necessary to add a socket in such circumstances, adding an RCD is neither difficult, expensive or time consuming.
Cable from ye olde fuse box, to RCD in separate enclosure, to socket. £20 extra in parts.

I suggested an RCD, which would improve the safety, but what the OP plans to do anyway - is a step-up in safety anyway. A proper socket, has to be better than a trailing extension.

The siren call of those who can't be bothered to do things properly.
Usually applied to things which are decades past replacement and entirely unsafe, and used as an excuse to tack on more dangerous mess because it is 'no less safe' than when they started.

There is no dispute about (reading between the lines), that the installation needs to be checked properly, and very likely updated. Problem is, this is an older person, and the last thing an elderly person needs, is their home turned upside down, for several weeks and the resultant mess. Sometimes, you just have to weigh up one risk, against another. A simple risk versus benefit assessment, suggests what the OP proposes, makes things safer, with no additional risk, and as a DIY'er, he can get away with doing it as he proposes.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

With no RCD and a fault occurs they could be electrocuted, burned to death or both.

Which is it to be?
Supposedly 'trapped' in this bed contraption for a certain amount of time
Or dead.

For a hundred years, we managed perfectly well without RCD's.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

I had this with a stair lift, mother's had a hole where you could put a drill with a socket and wind the chair to where required in an emergency. Fathers-in-law's they would not tell me how to release his German stair lift to get it off the stairs, they said to phone their agents, 12 miles away, not sure if he could wait ¾ hour to go to the loo. Not talking about riding on the lift, just getting it off the stairs.

I recarpetted the stairs, and the stairlift is bolted down through the stair carpet, so I needed the lift off the track, and the track up temporarily. I tried googling, for information as to how, to remove the heavy chair, but there is absolutely nothing much online to be found. I ended up lifting the track, plus chair up, not an easy job. Only much later, did I work out how to get the chair off, when it needed new batteries....

The chair of the 'travelling car', bolts onto the car, with three bolts, hidden behind a panel, the bolts allow the angle of the chair, to be adjusted, against that of the car/rail. Remove those bolts, and the entire chair comes off, unplugged just leaving car. Remove the stops from the rail, and the car can then be would off the end of the rail.

 

[flameport]

Problem is, this is an older person, and the last thing an elderly person needs, is their home turned upside down, for several weeks and the resultant mess.

How does installing an RCD in a small box on the wall cause weeks of mess?

For a hundred years, we managed perfectly well without RCD's.

Might as well go manage without electricity, running water, houses to live in and everything else.

 

[flameport]

I recarpetted the stairs,

Whatever next. Actually improving things so they are better than before.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

How does installing an RCD in a small box on the wall cause weeks of mess?

It doesn't, but as you were aware, I was referring to the possible need to bring the entire installation up to date, with a rewire.

Might as well go manage without electricity, running water, houses to live in and everything else.

Constantly and repeatedly updating, can be a very expensive option, as well as upsetting for the elderly. Things do not suddenly become unsafe, because the regulations change, assuming the condition is as good as when originally installed.

 

[flameport]

Constantly and repeatedly updating, can be a very expensive option, as well as upsetting for the elderly.

The original post was about adding a socket to an existing installation.
That is all. Not rewiring, not updating anything else, not causing weeks of disruption, not upsetting the elderly.

Short cable from the existing fusebox to an RCD located next to it. Cable to the new socket(s).

If people want to keep their decades old life expired electrical installation then they can.
Anything new should comply with standards of today, and in the case of adding a socket or two it's trivially easy and cheap to do so.

 

[crystal ball]

It doesn't, but as you were aware, I was referring to the possible need to bring the entire installation up to date, with a rewire.


Constantly and repeatedly updating, can be a very expensive option, as well as upsetting for the elderly. Things do not suddenly become unsafe, because the regulations change, assuming the condition is as good as when originally installed.

Yes , the hospital bed that may combust is serviced and checked by the council appointed contractor regularly

 

[crystal ball]

The original post was about adding a socket to an existing installation.
That is all. Not rewiring, not updating anything else, not causing weeks of disruption, not upsetting the elderly.

Short cable from the existing fusebox to an RCD located next to it. Cable to the new socket(s).

If people want to keep their decades old life expired electrical installation then they can.
Anything new should comply with standards of today, and in the case of adding a socket or two it's trivially easy and cheap to do so.

Not all situations are the same

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

The original post was about adding a socket to an existing installation.
That is all. Not rewiring, not updating anything else, not causing weeks of disruption, not upsetting the elderly.

Short cable from the existing fusebox to an RCD located next to it. Cable to the new socket(s).

Which really would be an entirely pointless exercise, don't you think? A relatively expensive RCD installed, to provide protection to one single socket outlet.

I have, in the distant past, protected single outlets, for special reasons, such as outdoor sockets, with plug-in RCD's.

Anyone with sense, would make the suggestion of protecting the entire installation, for not much more than the cost of protecting that single socket - which was what I suggested in my original post, or protecting all of the sockets only. Protecting one indoor socket, adds little value to safety -don't you think?

 

[Murdochcat]

Interesting reading - @flameport advocating complying with the regs and most others suggesting the regs don’t matter.

Just about sums up the UK these days