War Crimes...

[ellal]

Should of course be condemned wherever they occur and committed by whomever...

Especially given the current world situation we find ourselves in...

So no doubt there will be unilateral condemnation of this?

Former members of UK Special Forces have broken years of silence to give BBC Panorama eyewitness accounts of alleged war crimes committed by colleagues in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Giving their accounts publicly for the first time, the veterans described seeing members of the SAS murder unarmed people in their sleep and execute handcuffed detainees, including children.

"They handcuffed a young boy and shot him," recalled one veteran who served with the SAS in Afghanistan. "He was clearly a child, not even close to fighting age."

Killing of detainees "became routine", the veteran said. "They'd search someone, handcuff them, then shoot them", before cutting off the plastic handcuffs used to restrain people and "planting a pistol" by the body, he said.

The new testimony includes allegations of war crimes stretching over more than a decade, far longer than the three years currently being examined by a judge-led public inquiry in the UK.

The SBS, the Royal Navy's elite special forces regiment, is also implicated for the first time in the most serious allegations - executions of unarmed and wounded people.

A veteran who served with the SBS said some troops had a "mob mentality", describing their behaviour on operations as "barbaric".

"I saw the quietest guys switch, show serious psychopathic traits," he said. "They were lawless. They felt untouchable."



Of course those higher up in command and those in government who have kept quiet on this, and in some cases tried to prevent the truth about these allegations being heard are party to this...

An example of this was giving a veto over whether Afghan force members who served alongside the UK special services could come to the UK to the special forces themselves...

Because of that veto none did because of the fear that they would have to tell what they knew in a court of law...

So they were left to their fates with the Taliban.

The ones speaking out are the brave ones!

 

[Mottie]

Haven’t you heard the old saying, "all's fair in love and war"? You should volunteer for the front line if you don’t agree with those actually doing it. You could then give those that will do our troops or us harm now or in the future, a bloody good talking to. Yeah, that’ll do it.

 

[ellal]

Haven’t you heard the old saying, "all's fair in love and war"? You should volunteer for the front line if you don’t agree with those actually doing it. You could then give those that will do our troops or us harm now or in the future, a bloody good talking to. Yeah, that’ll do it.

Yep, it's an old saying mainly quoted by sad old men who don't care...

So since you won't condemn, it seems that murdering children in their sleep is 'fair' as far as you are concerned...

When it is done by UK forces of course!

 

[Notch7]

Should of course be condemned wherever they occur and committed by whomever...

Especially given the current world situation we find ourselves in...

So no doubt there will be unilateral condemnation of this?

Former members of UK Special Forces have broken years of silence to give BBC Panorama eyewitness accounts of alleged war crimes committed by colleagues in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Giving their accounts publicly for the first time, the veterans described seeing members of the SAS murder unarmed people in their sleep and execute handcuffed detainees, including children.

"They handcuffed a young boy and shot him," recalled one veteran who served with the SAS in Afghanistan. "He was clearly a child, not even close to fighting age."

Killing of detainees "became routine", the veteran said. "They'd search someone, handcuff them, then shoot them", before cutting off the plastic handcuffs used to restrain people and "planting a pistol" by the body, he said.

The new testimony includes allegations of war crimes stretching over more than a decade, far longer than the three years currently being examined by a judge-led public inquiry in the UK.

The SBS, the Royal Navy's elite special forces regiment, is also implicated for the first time in the most serious allegations - executions of unarmed and wounded people.

A veteran who served with the SBS said some troops had a "mob mentality", describing their behaviour on operations as "barbaric".

"I saw the quietest guys switch, show serious psychopathic traits," he said. "They were lawless. They felt untouchable."



Of course those higher up in command and those in government who have kept quiet on this, and in some cases tried to prevent the truth about these allegations being heard are party to this...

An example of this was giving a veto over whether Afghan force members who served alongside the UK special services could come to the UK to the special forces themselves...

Because of that veto none did because of the fear that they would have to tell what they knew in a court of law...

So they were left to their fates with the Taliban.

The ones speaking out are the brave ones!

of course such actions are wrong and shouldnt happen

but it has to be taken in context: soldiers were sent to Iraq and Afghanistan purely because USA politicians wanted to gain popularity by engaging in acts of retaliation, without any clear strategy and no exit plan.

In Afghanistan Our soldiers faced endless booby traps by the Taliban, lots of soldiers saw their mates get blown up. I cant imagine living in constant fear at that sort of level

136 deaths and over 2000 injuries in Afghanistan


Im not sure its my place as an armchair observer to straightforwardly condemn the actions, its not black and white


lets not turn this into political tribal point scoring, there are so many soldiers suffering terrible lifelong injuries here in the UK

 

[Londoner2]

Objective was to capture suspects , but they were slaughtered in their sleep, some were frogmarched to secluded areas and shot with a pistols planted on them to show they were a threat.

Despite the what aboutery.

War crimes yes.

 

[ic1927]

My mate served in Afghanistan, his job was to recover the dead and injured British troops, he would find dismembered body parts in trees. Faced with situations like that it must be hard to keep calm and civilised.

 

[Highway Man]

…….

 

[crystal ball]

Haven’t you heard the old saying, "all's fair in love and war"? You should volunteer for the front line if you don’t agree with those actually doing it. You could then give those that will do our troops or us harm now or in the future, a bloody good talking to. Yeah, that’ll do it.

Is it Ok for all combatants to participate?

 

[Highway Man]

Is it Ok for all combatants to participate?

Its not OK but $hit happens

 

[ellal]

My mate served in Afghanistan, his job was to recover the dead and injured British troops, he would find dismembered body parts in trees. Faced with situations like that it must be hard to keep calm and civilised.

It's the job of the chain of command to stop war crimes happening, whatever the circumstances...

Otherwise everyone just descends to the level that people complain about when the 'other side' commit atrocities...

But as I mentioned before about the 'system', it's now been confirmed that the cover-up went to the top...

A top general who failed to report evidence of alleged SAS war crimes in Afghanistan later oversaw the rejection of hundreds of UK resettlement applications from Afghan commandos who served with the elite regiment, BBC Panorama can reveal.

"Thousands of applications from individuals with credible evidence of service with Afghan Special Forces, including the units known as the Triples, were then rejected, leaving many of the former commandos at the mercy of the Taliban.

The rejections are controversial because they came at a time when a judge-led public inquiry in the UK had begun investigating the SAS for alleged war crimes on operations on which the Triples were present.

If the Afghan commandos were in the UK, they could be called as witnesses - but the inquiry has no power to compel testimony from foreign nationals who are overseas.

Some of those denied visas were subsequently tortured and killed by the Taliban, according to former colleagues, family members and lawyers."



Those who just dismiss this as '$hit happens' are often those that squeal the loudest when the 'other side' do such horrendous things...

Total double standards and a disgusting attitude!

 

[Highway Man]

It's the job of the chain of command to stop war crimes happening, whatever the circumstances...

Otherwise everyone just descends to the level that people complain about when the 'other side' commit atrocities...

But as I mentioned before about the 'system', it's now been confirmed that the cover-up went to the top...

A top general who failed to report evidence of alleged SAS war crimes in Afghanistan later oversaw the rejection of hundreds of UK resettlement applications from Afghan commandos who served with the elite regiment, BBC Panorama can reveal.

"Thousands of applications from individuals with credible evidence of service with Afghan Special Forces, including the units known as the Triples, were then rejected, leaving many of the former commandos at the mercy of the Taliban.

The rejections are controversial because they came at a time when a judge-led public inquiry in the UK had begun investigating the SAS for alleged war crimes on operations on which the Triples were present.

If the Afghan commandos were in the UK, they could be called as witnesses - but the inquiry has no power to compel testimony from foreign nationals who are overseas"

Those who just dismiss this as '$hit happens' are often those that squeal the loudest when the 'other side' do such horrendous things...

Total double standards and a disgusting attitude!

It's not a game, it is war. Nobody wants to do the things that you have to do in a war. When faced with things that are so horrendous, you go into another person, it is not great , it isn't really you that is doing it. You have a mixture of fear, anxiety to the point of losing a grip on all reality, stress beyond belief and anger all mixed into one, you say a disgusting attitude. It is not like walking around Tescos doing your shopping. Nobody enjoys doing the things you do or you would have to be a Psychopath. Do you think that you would do these things yourself? Hopefully you will never know the true answer but I garantee that it isn't as hard as it appears. Do you think a war involves just shooting someone from a distance and so that is normal?

 

[ajrtd]

We heard similar claims from Phil Shiner

 

[ellal]

It's not a game, it is war. Nobody wants to do the things that you have to do in a war. When faced with things that are so horrendous, you go into another person, it is not great , it isn't the really you that is doing it. You have a mixture of fear, anxiety to the point of losing a grip on all reality, stress beyond belief and anger all mixed into one, you say a disgusting attitude. It is not like walking around Tescos doing your shopping. Nobody enjoys doing the things you do or you would have to be a Psychopath. Do you think that you would do these things yourself? Hopefully you will never know the true answer but I garantee that it isn't as hard as it appears. Do you think a war involves just shooting someone from a distance and so that is normal?

Don't be so patronising...

It isn't the concept of war that is in question here, it is the level of atrocities to which the troops plunged down to that has to be addressed rather than simply dismissed!

No one can justify the murder of a sleeping child whatever the circumstances...

And as far as that 'top general', he wasn't on the missions where these actions took place so we can't blame the circumstances fore his actions...

Actions which probably encouraged such behaviour...

"A senior government source close to the process told the BBC that the UK Special Forces officer "would never have acted without direction", adding that "everything would have gone through Gwyn Jenkins".

"Gen Jenkins was made aware of allegations that the SAS was committing extrajudicial killings in Afghanistan, but he failed to report the allegations to military police - Panorama has previously revealed - despite a legal obligation to do so. The suspected unlawful killings continued"

And of course the cover up continues...

"Gen Jenkins did not respond to the BBC's request for comment on this story. The MoD responded on his behalf. It said in a statement that there is no evidence it has tried to prevent former Afghan troops giving evidence to the Inquiry and that "anyone can provide evidence… no matter where in the world they are".

Bullshit lies!

 

[Highway Man]

You are the one patronising and making it even more horrendous than what it is. If someone broke into a house and commited these crimes then yes it would be the work of a maniac. You cannot call the SAS or the SBS maniacs.

 

[blup]

Early days yet but it seems there is a case for investigating as long as it’s not done by lawyers on the make. The allegations are concerning that afgan’s who helped British forces were kept out for fear they would bd called as witnesses. As for the argument that these things in war, it is often fellow soldiers who report the allegations