Can I add an EV charger for a PHEV to this CU

[plugwash]

Do EV makers produce special versions of their cars for the UK market, as in other countries higher charging rates are supported, and generally people who make anything prefer to have one variant rather than multiple.

Car makers have to produce different variants to meet legal requirements and customer expectations in different markets. US spec cars and EU spec cars tend to be very different due to a battery of different legal requirements and are also often built in different factories. UK spec cars are generally fairly close to EU spec other than the obvious swapping of the drive sides.

The US seems to do 50A single phase AC charging, but it doesn't seem to be "a thing" in Europe. On the other hand americans often have 200A or even 400A single phase services, which would be unheard of here.

 

[flameport]

I also think that there is no point whatsover expecting you to engage in a rational discussion on this topic.

Be sure to use that BLOCK button immediately then.

 

[JohnW2]

Car makers have to produce different variants to meet legal requirements and customer expectations in different markets. US spec cars and EU spec cars tend to be very different due to a battery of different legal requirements and are also often built in different factories. UK spec cars are generally fairly close to EU spec other than the obvious swapping of the drive sides.

I imagine that it would often be possible to design a single product which satisfied most major markets, wouldn't it? (with a few obvious exceptions, such as which side the steering wheel was on!). That would undoubtedly mean that, in relation to some issues, it went beyond the requirements of some countries - but I don't think any country has a problem with 'going beyond' the requirements - and it could well be cost-effective for a manufacturer to have only one product (well, two, given the left-/right-hand drive issue!) to produce.

 

[plugwash]

At least for ICE cars my understanding is that the regulations get increasingly difficult to meet, even if you are only trying to meet one set of them. Possibly less of an issue for EVs. Tarriff issues have also come into play, my understanding is that most cars for the US market are made in north america for this reason, while cars for the EU market are usually made somewhere in Europe (though increasingly we are seeing Chinese made EVs on the EU shores).

And different charging connectors have become established in the two regions as well. The EU forced through the "type 2" connector with CCS, while north america uses a mixture of "Type 1" (with or without CCS) and NACs (which was tesla-propietary until recently but has now been opened up to other car makers).

 

[blup]

Doesn't exist. There are no places anywhere in Britain where you could be too far away from a charging facility to run out of charge before you got to it.

But with very different refuelling/recharging time-scales

The only people who run out of charge are the same ones who run out of petrol or diesel - 100% their own fault for not bothering to refuel the vehicle at an appropriate time.

Much more planning with an electric car, and time isn’t always on your side

There are now over 6000 locations in the UK which have rapid or ultra rapid chargers, and that number is increasing all the time. Most of those locations have multiple charging devices, and that is just locations with 50kW or above DC charging.
There are another 30000+ locations with AC charging, such as would be used when staying at a place for a few hours.

There are about 8000 petrol stations, that number is declining, and has been declining for years.

Which is why s phev appeals, the best if both worlds: short town asked electric powered journeys, but reliant on the zICE for longer ones. There are still parts of the UK where convenient EV charging can be problematic. The myriad of apps and charging companies is crazy for example

 

[JohnW2]

vehicles could be refuelled There are now over 6000 locations in the UK which have rapid or ultra rapid chargers, and that number is increasing all the time. .... There are another 30000+ locations with AC charging. Most of those locations have multiple charging devices .... There are about 8000 petrol stations, that number is declining, and has been declining for years.

I think those figures are potentially misleading ('chalk and cheese'), given the considerable difference between the time taken to re-charge an EV (even with a rapid charger) and the time taken to re-fuel a car with petrol, diesel or LPG.

Rather than the number of 'locations' (and/or number of 'charging devices'/petrol pumps), what would actually be interesting and useful to know is how many EVs per 24h those locations could recharge and how many non-electric vehicles the locations could re-fuel per 24h.

 

[Why Not Indeed]

The EU forced through the "type 2" connector with CCS

They didn't try very hard, Lexus are still selling cars today with type 2 + Chademo, but no CCS!

 

[flameport]

I think those figures are potentially misleading ('chalk and cheese'),

They are but only in that about 4% of UK vehicles are electric, so per vehicle there are already vastly more locations for electric vehicles compared to those for combustion engine vehicles.

how many EVs per 24h those locations could recharge

That depends on how many charging devices are at each location, but it's certainly a lot less than a petrol emporium in most cases.

This is also unrelated as by the time a majority of UK vehicles are electric, there will be vastly more charging locations for them.
Currently each DC charging device is used about 4 times a day on average, but that will vary dramatically between locations and throughout the year.

The comparison to petrol/diesel dispensers isn't valid at all, as those will be used by 100% of combustion cars, but a substantial proportion of EV vehicles will charge at home/work/other and rarely use public charging. There is no direct equivalence between petrol forecourts and DC charging facilities.

 

[flameport]

Much more planning with an electric car,

Decent electric cars do all of that for you. No planning required other than providing a destination.
For those cars which do not, there are various free apps to do the same.
Even without such things, it's not exactly difficult to consider stopping somewhere on that long journey, and most people would be doing that anyway.

The myriad of apps and charging companies is crazy for example

There have been problems in the past, but all public DC charging can be paid for using any contactless card - a legal requirement since November 2024. Most had contactless payment well before that, as the requirements applied from November 2023 with up to a year to comply.
Apps and other payment methods still exist but are optional.

There are still parts of the UK where convenient EV charging can be problematic.

There really isn't - even in places such as northern Scotland or central Wales where there are very few, worst case is the nearest DC charging facility could be 20 miles away.
However if driving through such places, any sensible person would ensure they had sufficient charge to reach the next location - just as they would with a petrol vehicle.

For everywhere else even in rural areas it would be difficult to get more than about 10 miles from a charging facility. In urban areas they are numerous with dozens to choose from within just a few miles.

 

[morqthana]

Be sure to use that BLOCK button immediately then.

Why?

On other topics you seem eminently sensible, and on your YT channel.

 

[JohnW2]

They are but only in that about 4% of UK vehicles are electric, so per vehicle there are already vastly more locations for electric vehicles compared to those for combustion engine vehicles.

Whilst that is mathematically true, it's ob no consolation to an individual EV user. In fact the lower the percentage of UK vehicles that are electric, the more potential problems/concerns are there for the (relatively 'few') EV users - with only a relatively 'few' EV users, the 'locations per vehicle' could be very high, yet the absolute number of such locations pretty small, with maybe few geographically relevant to an individual user.

That depends on how many charging devices are at each location, but it's certainly a lot less than a petrol emporium in most cases.

That sounds like a bit of a 'double whammy' for us to address at some point in the future. As you went on to write ...

This is also unrelated as by the time a majority of UK vehicles are electric, there will be vastly more charging locations for them.

The combination of the fact there (at least currently) are generally less charging points at each location than their usually are petrol pumps at petrol stations and the fact that it takes much longer to charge an EV than it does to put fuel into an ICE vehicle, presumably means that we are eventually going to need an awful lot more 'charging locations' than we ever had petrol stations?

The comparison to petrol/diesel dispensers isn't valid at all, as those will be used by 100% of combustion cars, but a substantial proportion of EV vehicles will charge at home/work/other and rarely use public charging.

That I accept -although I would count 'charging at work' as really just being another 'charging location'. AS for home charging, there is always going to be the problem that a substantial proportion of private vehicle owners do not have any off-road parking facility, and I'm not sure how (if) we could address that - even if we could address the issue of 'cables over pavements', there's always going to be the problem of not necessarily being able to park near enough to one's home.

As you imply, the day will presumably inevitably come when all road vehicles are electric (indeed, the day will inevitably come when electricity, however generated, is essentially the only energy source we have for any purpose) but one might have hoped that the infrastructure implications would have been largely addressed before people were encourage o change to EVs - and that includes the adequacy of electricity supply as well as issues relating to charging.

 

[morqthana]

 

[JohnW2]

However if driving through such places, any sensible person would ensure they had sufficient charge to reach the next location - just as they would with a petrol vehicle.

Yes, they would have to, but it' a somewhat more onerous (and 'pressing') task when the distance one's vehicle can go before needing a 'top up' (of electricity or liquid/gaseous fuel) is less.

We seem to have tuned the clock back to some extent. I'm old enough to remember the days (and with vehicles whose 'range' may not have been much greater than that of current EVs!) when one had to be careful about identifying in advance and then visiting petrol stations when travelling in some of the more remote parts of the UK. However, we've largely grown out of that, and now expect to be able to find petrol pretty easily whenever/wherever one needs it.

 

[ericmark]

1) The consumer unit shown does seem likely to support 7 kW single phase AC charging.
2) There are larger chargers, but they require three phase supplies, and not all cars will take the 22 kW three phase charging.
3) I don't think any one knows how many charges are available, I know where I work they are taken off line in winter due to abuse.
4) The cost of energy with a home charging point is so low compared with commercial outlets, most would aim to charge at home.
5) Firms like Octopus are now doing the whole lot, including supply of the car, and electrical firms can't compete.

As long as you have some where to charge the vehicle off-road there is no real problem. The problems are where people want to charge on the street, and in some cases there is not enough distance from street furniture.

And once one has a off-peak supply for the car, then seems to make sense to also using it for other items. So solar panels and fixed batteries seem to go hand in hand with EV charging, which likely mean a new consumer unit to allow for both.

 

[JohnW2]

EV users are, of course, currently enjoying a honeymoon. Sooner or later, government is going to have to do something to replace the massive revenue income they currently have from fuel excise duty. It's currently about 53p per litre, so maybe £25-£30 for each fill-up with petrol/diesel - and when government decide on a way of maintaining that sort of level of revenue from vehicle users, those with EVs are probably in for a pretty big shock