Extended loss of grid power, what will happen to my central heating with loss of Wi-Fi?

[ericmark]

I did try and get all supplies for central heating from on FCU which is battery backed, and connected to solar, so most will still get power, can't really emulate a power cut to see, as all the monitoring will fail, so the Bluetooth TRV heads will work as normal, not so sure about Wi-Fi connected TRV's is the info as to when to change temperature stored in the TRV, or the hubs? And wife's bedroom TRV will lose connection as it need a socket adaptor to relay the info. Main Nest and Wiser hubs will still be powered, Wiser wall thermostat battery powered, and Nest Gen 3 thermostat extra low voltage supply from its hub.

So could get an UPS for the router, which could also do phones, or in an emergency simply run an extension lead kitchen to hall to keep it running, but is it needed?

The less which is supplied from the main battery, the longer it will last, so not even supplied lights from it, as don't want them discharging it when not required.

At the moment, power cuts are rare, but I see the push for more and more using the grid supply, and the addition of EV charging and heat pumps, not to consider the loss of so much off-peak use when the radio 4 long wave is turned off, I would expect power cuts to become more regular events.

I well remember the Winter of discontent and what happened when our only heating in the house was switched off. There were flueless gas heaters made, and of course the portable heaters

but during the crisis these were all snapped up, as was the bottles of gas to run them, so all you had what what had been bought before the labour party brought the country to its knees, and when one reads the report, one sees a repeat in the offering.

These actions included an unofficial strike by gravediggers working in Liverpool and Tameside, and strikes by refuse collectors, leaving uncollected rubbish on streets and in public spaces

we are seeing uncollected rubbish on streets and in public spaces, yet again in some areas, it seems the labour party has a knack of upsetting workers.

So how much do we need to prepare for power cuts? Even before any power cuts there is a lack of coal, having to import it from Poland, which is rubbish coal and causing line side fires due to the sparks it causes, which get through the spark arresters as so much dust in the coal.

But I digress, the question is, how will central heating preform without Wifi and signal boosters etc.

 

[bernardgreen]

But I digress, the question is, how will central heating preform without Wifi and signal boosters etc

If the boiler is controlled by commands carried by WiFi then when the WiFi fails the boiler will not fire up.

 

[ericmark]

The two hubs one Wiser the other Nest I would not think use the Wi-Fi net to work between the hub and wall thermostat, Nest is hard-wired, so that one at least should work, and I would hope the Wiser wall thermostat would connect direct to the hub, I realise the Wiser TRV will fail, to communicate with hub as the socket adaptor which relays the zigbee signal will be down, but I would hope it will still open and close the water supply to radiator at the set times, but not fire the boiler.

However, I don't know. Summer now, so can't really test until winter, but when running we would look at the app. The report will clearly not work without the router running, so there is no way to really know what has gone on during a power cut. All but wife's bedroom not firing boiler should one would hope still work. But if it fails, by then it's a bit too late.

I will clearly not be able to increase temperature by simply says hey google set living room to 22ºC, I will need to actually walk to the wall thermostat and manually set it, but that is not a problem, could do with the exercise, but since not tested, will the zigbee link still work? I can't see how I can really test what will happen.

 

[morqthana]

If the boiler is controlled by commands carried by WiFi then when the WiFi fails the boiler will not fire up.

And people will sit in the cold wondering WOE they were so bonkers that they decided they should use WiFi/Bluetooth connected mobile phone apps to control their heating.

 

[ericmark]

And people will sit in the cold wondering WOE they were so bonkers that they decided they should use WiFi/Bluetooth connected mobile phone apps to control their heating.

Been there done that. A storm took out the local EE mast, and my heating thought I was not home, so turned heating to Eco mode, since then the geo-fencing option has been turned off.

The problem was Nest Gen 3 also has a PIR sensor in the wall thermostat, so each time I approached it, the heating would be turned up, had it said 17ºC I would have known something wrong, but it said set to 20ºC but only getting to 17ºC and I thought my boiler was simply not big enough with the bad weather.

I did not connect the central heating to google home, but it has found it anyway. It says I have 11 climate devices, but really only 7, but not having voice control is not really a problem, if, and this is the big if, the info telling a TRV to open or close, is held in the TRV, or in the hub? If former no problem, if in hub, then when the socket adaptor looses power, the TRV will not connect to hub.

 

[Rodders53]

In order to know you will need to simulate a mains power cut and (just for the test) have your monitoring kit powered from either your battery storage/inverter via a long extension lead or some other Battery-inverter source.

 

[JohnW2]

And people will sit in the cold wondering WOE they were so bonkers that they decided they should use WiFi/Bluetooth connected mobile phone apps to control their heating.

Quite so - 'new-fangled' is usually/often unnecessary, and not even necessarily any more 'convenient', but in some situations it seems to be just plain ridiculous!

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

I did try and get all supplies for central heating from on FCU which is battery backed, and connected to solar, so most will still get power, can't really emulate a power cut to see, as all the monitoring will fail, so the Bluetooth TRV heads will work as normal, not so sure about Wi-Fi connected TRV's is the info as to when to change temperature stored in the TRV, or the hubs?

I spotted a new TV ad yesterday, from one of those elderly/infirm pendant alarm companies - it was pointing out the need to advise your internet provider, that your router will need to be battery backed, and claimed to be uk.gov sponsored.

Most of my life, I have followed the latest tech - an early adopter, I have smart switches, and Alexa, make some use of Alexa to remotely control some things, plus remind me to take pills at certain times, which bins to put out when etc., but I draw the line at handing over full control of my heating system, despite making use of it for monitoring purposes.

 

[JohnW2]

If the boiler is controlled by commands carried by WiFi then when the WiFi fails the boiler will not fire up.

Indeed. However, one of the frustrations about gas central heating is that although it is 'gas-powered' it can't function without electricity, and I presume that if there was not enough (or any) electricity available to power a router, there certainly wouldn't be enough to run the boiler and associated pumps/valves etc.

Of course, if the control system required an Internet connection, then if that failed due to something external to one's house, then one would be 'sunk', no matter how much electricity one had available!

 

[morqthana]

Given the power, and power density, of Li-Ion batteries maybe there's a market for boiler makers to build battery backup into their products?

 

[bernardgreen]

although it is 'gas-powered' it can't function without electricity,

My heat only boiler and the pump are the only items that depend on there being a 230 Volt 50 Hz supply. In a power cut an invertor supplied from a 12 volt battery can power the boiler if the heating is required. All the valves are 12 Volt DC motorised valves which along with the control circuitry can be powered by a battery,

 

[bernardgreen]

build battery backup into their product

Li-ion batteries in the same casing as a gas powered heat exchanger are at significant risk of going into thermal runaway.

 

[JohnW2]

My heat only boiler and the pump are the only items that depend on there being a 230 Volt 50 Hz supply. In a power cut an invertor supplied from a 12 volt battery can power the boiler if the heating is required.

Sure, but as I wrote, if one has an inverter that can do that,it could surely also run a router?

All the valves are 12 Volt DC motorised valves which along with the control circuitry can be powered by a battery,

I would have thought that is unusual. Although my experience is limited, I've never personally seen CH motorised valves that weren't 230V AC ones.

 

[JohnW2]

Li-ion batteries in the same casing as a gas powered heat exchanger are at significant risk of going into thermal runaway.

An EV in "death Valley", or even more modestly hot parts of the world, might have similar problems?

 

[bernardgreen]

I would have thought that is unusual

DIY design for the actuators so yes unusual.