Boxing in RSJ

[ladwey]

Quick question about the best way to box in an RSJ. It's on piers made of standard concrete blocks, which are obviously much wider than the RSJ. I could either box in the RSJ and the piers separately, so there's a narrower beam going across the room, or I could frame it out to make the boxing as wide as the blocks all the way across the room. I've attached a couple of sketches so you can see what I mean. I think the big wide box for the whole thing probably looks cleaner, but then it's a pretty wide bit of boxing along the middle of the ceiling. The ceilings are fairly low, if that's important to know. Is there a preferred way to do this? What does everyone recommend? Thanks for any advice!

 

[Mottie]

Personal choice but I wouldn’t have the first drawing.

 

[cdbe]

That's a massive downstand, wasn't it possible to put it higher. Anyway I'd make the cladding as "compact" as possible but agree not the first one.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

This one looks best, for me.

 

[ladwey]

That's a massive downstand, wasn't it possible to put it higher. Anyway I'd make the cladding as "compact" as possible but agree not the first one.

It wasn't my decision unfortunately -- would have been better to use two beams alongside each other to reduce the drop into the room, in my opinion, but it is what it is. I reckon the engineer massively overcompensated for what the actual load is, but that's not my job and I can't complain.

 

[noseall]

Thanks for any advice!

Is this built under SE instruction and B'regs compliance?

 

[ladwey]

Is this built under SE instruction and B'regs compliance?

It is, yes

 

[noseall]

It is, yes

Should that blockwork pier not be 'fully tied in'?

Hammered in noggings are not acceptable (fir reg's). Mechanically bolted to the web or shot fired is preferable.

 

[ladwey]

Should that blockwork pier not be 'fully tied in'?

Hammered in noggings are not acceptable (fir reg's). Mechanically bolted to the web or shot fired is preferable.

It's tied in with wall ties; the structural engineer visited while it was going up and raised no objection. The steel also extends into the wall beyond, and the pier is there to give it a larger base to sit on. Beyond that I couldn't tell you what the builders got up to. I didn't know that about the hammered in noggings. Would it be preferable therefore to have the wider boxing as sketched above, where the timber will instead be attached to the ceiling joists?

 

[^woody^]

My condolences

 

[ladwey]

My condolences

Haha maybe it will give the place character! At any rate, any preference regarding the narrower / wider boxing?

 

[^woody^]

Your sketches need to be in proportion as the beam is as deep as the pier is wide and it will look different to those drawings.

I'd abstain, but if I had to vote, #1

 

[23vc]

I know hammered in noggins are apparently a no no nowadays, but can’t quite work out why, if they’re on the “protected” side of the fire protection? Something to do with steel twisting and dislodging them?

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

I know hammered in noggins are apparently a no no nowadays, but can’t quite work out why, if they’re on the “protected” side of the fire protection? Something to do with steel twisting and dislodging them?

Over several years, the timber can dry out, shrink, and become loose.

 

[noseall]

Over several years, the timber can dry out, shrink, and become loose.

Not along the grain, no.