Important information Preparing for a power cut.

[SUNRAY]

No. it was a comment relating to the ignorance of people who do not create a resilence plan.

Well I certainly don't have a plan as such but do have a selection of portable kit which is fairly easy to put into use as required. The last outage was a lost neutral and very low voltage, we had pies in the oven and pans on the hob. My solution was the camping stove to finish everything, leisure battery and inverter to run the kitchen TV and a table lamp.
A neighbour knocked on the door to say DNO reckoned another 2 hours then realised we appeared to running normally. I said when we'd eaten we'd visit neighbours to see what help the required, especially to boil a kettle for a hot drink but power came back on very quickly.
At the time it was a very elderly age group so we did check a dozen or so neighbours to ensure they were ok and things came back on.

 

[JohnW2]

.... The last outage was a lost neutral and very low voltage ..... A neighbour knocked on the door to say DNO reckoned another 2 hours then realised we appeared to running normally. I said when we'd eaten we'd visit neighbours to see what help the required, especially to boil a kettle for a hot drink but power came back on very quickly.

They can obviously become extremely over-stretched when there are widespread/extensive weather-related problems, but at all other times they seem remarkably good/quick.

Our 'rural' supply is subject to quite frequent very brief outages - anything from a few seconds to 5 minutes or so - and, apart from nuisance value (resetting clocks etc.) that is of no consequence. However, in the ~40 years I've been in this house, I can only recall two power cuts of significant duration.

The first was some sort of underground cable problem, with the outage lasting around 6-8 hours, involving their 'digging up the road' mainly during the night.

The second was transformer failure. It has shown itself by one of out three phases falling to a very low voltage and another rising to a frightening level - but, fortunately, the latter did no damage (at least, not in my house or any others I was aware of). However, even that outage lasted less than 24h, despite the transformer having to be replaced.

To address eric's concerns (and to put things in a bit of perspective), even that (one in 40 years) <24h power cut did no harm to the contents of any freezer - but in the same 40 years we have suffered several freezer failures (due to failure of the freezer, not a power cut or RCD trip), at least some of which may have resulted in loss of contents had we not had over-temp alarms on all our freezers!

 

[SUNRAY]

So would I have imagined - but Sunray has recently told us otherwise

I only have specific knowledge of 2 but have no idea how representative that is however I'll also add one has airwave on it with no obvious batteries but if there are they won't be big, it's also a prominant hill top site with a number of link dishes to other masts so again I don't know what resiliance links exist to them.

 

[mattylad]

I don't plan on doing anything, not had a power cut for years.
If we do have one my phone will give me an immediate torch, that's if the torch I usually have in my pocket when in the house or theone on my keys is not to hand, just enough so I can find the bih hand torch thats next to me now.

TV we can do without, the laptops will be useless without internet which I assume will also be off
If it's during the day I'll just go fishing and get a chippy tea.

If its going to be for more than a few hours I have an old genny in the cellar that I can dig out but by the time I have sorted it out the leccy will probably be back on.

To prevent all this, we need to get rid of electric cars

 

[ericmark]

not had a power cut for years

The leaflet says if there is a supply issue, then NGESO can tell the network operator to cut the power, this is not a power cut due to break-downs, and it seems there is a 3-hour limit.

To prevent all this, we need to get rid of electric cars

And heat pumps of course, in fact electric cars is not a problem as they can turn off electric cars without a general power cut, the heat pump supply is the problem.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

as they can turn off some electric cars

 

[JohnW2]

I don't plan on doing anything, not had a power cut for years.

As I've said, essentially the same here - but at least things like torches (aka phones ) make sense, since (as people often seem to overlook in these discussions) power cuts are by no means the most common reason why people sometimes get 'plunged into darkness'!

.... the laptops will be useless without internet which I assume will also be off

Certainly not usable within your house without power for the router. However, if you have a mobile phone, and if the the mobile network is still working in your area despite the power cut, you could connect you laptop to the internet via your phone's 'mobile data'. I have to do that occasionally when there's a problem with the internet connection (not due to a power cut!).

If its going to be for more than a few hours I have an old genny in the cellar that I can dig out but by the time I have sorted it out the leccy will probably be back on.

Ditto here. Mine's been in the garage for many years and only 'exercised' occasionally, but virtually never used 'in anger'.

To prevent all this, we need to get rid of electric cars

... and maybe also (as eric has said) heat pumps

 

[JohnW2]

.... in fact electric cars is not a problem as they can turn off electric cars without a general power cut

I take it that you're talking about turning off EV charging, since I would probably worry if 'they' had the ability to "turn off electric cars"

 

[ericmark]

I take it that you're talking about turning off EV charging, since I would probably worry if 'they' had the ability to "turn off electric cars"

Yes, talking about turning off the chargers. Or more to the point, reversing the chargers and feeding the grid.

I know the idea is the same as in 1978, but there are some real problems. Where can you turn off, which is not also turning off supply?

If I lose grid supply, then all I am producing is lost once my batteries are full. But heating, and cooling, will need to catch up. So once it is turned back on, there will be even more load.

I had it in the Falklands, I have 4 x 250 kVA generators, normally I could run on 2, sometimes I needed 3, if something went wrong, like the fan belts failed, I could not put another generator on in time, so the only option was to shed load, then I had a job even with 3 running to reconnect the load without it overloading all 3 remaining generators.

Once they turn off load, it will then have a knock on effect.

 

[JohnW2]

If I lose grid supply, then all I am producing is lost once my batteries are full.

Presumably not if you can make real-time use of what you are generating (e.g. to heat water, or even for space heating)?

 

[JohnW2]

The leaflet says if there is a supply issue, then NGESO can tell the network operator to cut the power, this is not a power cut due to break-downs, and it seems there is a 3-hour limit.

Exactly ... as I wrote back on page 1 ...

That's probably because .... (b) they consider it very unlikely that many people will suffer power cuts so prolonged as to be an issue for freezers (deliberate 'planned' power cuts' presumably are limited in duration for this sort of reason)

... so why, I wonder, are you appaeently concerned about the possible effect of 'deliberate' power cuts on your freezers?

 

[ericmark]

... so why, I wonder, are you appaeently concerned about the possible effect of 'deliberate' power cuts on your freezers?

My freezers are not going to fail, so that's not a problem, but lights at night would be a problem. Although my freezers and central heating will not stop other people's will, so on power returning all freezers will want to run, and all heating will want to run, so once a section is turned off it with need a load of extra to get it back on again.

 

[JohnW2]

My freezers are not going to fail, so that's not a problem .... Although my freezers and central heating will not stop other people's will ...

Yes, but so what? You and I have both suggested that 'deliberate' power cuts (to manage supply inadequacies would generally not be lengthy (say, more than 3-4 hours or so) - so that, even though other people's freezers would stop for that short period, it would not be ' a problem' ... and the same would be true for your freezers, even if you had not heavily invested in kit which would probably prevent your freezers going off (for a short time) at all.

 

[ericmark]

It does state 3 hours, which is like with that very idea in mind. With a chest freezer as you say, not a problem even if the door is opened, with an auto defrost upright as I have said many times it depends on how close to the defrost cycle.

As I have said before a few years back I had a freezer fail with a bang, so knew it had failed as standing next to it. I have a fridge/freezer being used to brew beer in, so without opening the door, I went and switched on the spare, and gave it 20 minutes or so to get down in temperature. Thinking, I had a few hours to swap food.

Food in the majority of the freezer was OK, but top foot food had started to defrost. The whole idea of the frost free upright is the working parts are behind a panel

and a fan moves the cold air around so all the freezer is at the same temperature, there are no hot spots, and heaters in with the evaporator coils defrost the coils without defrosting the whole unit. The water goes to a tray on top of the motor so it will evaporate latter, if it is switched off right at the end of a defrost cycle then the top can defrost. Even when the main body remains frozen. The frost free freezer was not that popular in 1978 so we did not get the problem, we are told not to open the door so we don't see what has happened and all is refrozen, as to damage caused to the food, I don't know. Likely not that much? I keep lolly ices in the top, These will deform if defrosted, so I will know. And the freezer will display the highest temperature it reached until the door is opened after a power cut. But not all do that.

So having something in the top of an upright freezer to show if it has defrosted would be a good preparation for power cuts.

But in 1978 the problem for me was heating, back then non double-glazed windows, and we had picture windows either end of the living room, and once the hot air gas central heating failed, the room soon got very cold. There are I know in Shrewsbury some rental properties still with single glazing, permitted as they are listed buildings, and they are not allowed to change the windows.

Personally, I would cut a Perspex sheet to fit the window space for the winter, well personally I would not want a slopping floor in my flat either, the central heating has been removed, when built the cows were kept under the living area and the heat from the cows heated the house, that is not done any more. I could not see any signs of a fire place, likely they were originally with workshops above, not living quarters? But we did not have storage heaters in the 16th century.

I have one of these

or very similar if not the same, it has a built-in same fluorescent light in one end, and a 13 amp socket (300 watt) and cigarette lighter socket the other end, the dedicated jump start leads, the compressor has failed, and been removed, and battery (20 Ah AGM) has been replaced. Charges with a Walmart type charger, so slow to charge, but does auto turn off the charger when full.

Before replacing the battery, I bought a modern replacement. Yes it will jump start a car, and it has a light, but no 13 amp socket, or cigarette lighter socket, the USB outlet seems a bit hit-and-miss. at, 6400 mAh it is not going to last long as a stand by power supply, 3.2 hours if I could find a 10 watt USB lamp. I had expected a 12 volt unit and the warning "Don't continue Starting car more than 1 minutes. (Otherwise may short circuit and burnout machine)" does not fill me with confidence. And the LED may work wall as a torch, but not really going to light the room.

 

[JohnW2]

It does state 3 hours, which is like with that very idea in mind.

Exactly. Unless it became totally unavoidable, I don't believe that they would deliberately switch power off for long enough to put the contents of any type of (unopened) freezer at risk.

With a chest freezer as you say, not a problem even if the door is opened, with an auto defrost upright as I have said many times it depends on how close to the defrost cycle.

Yes, you've often said that. I've never had one of these new-fangled freezers, so don't have personal experience, but I thought the idea was that most of the 'frost', hence defrosting, happened outside of the freezer cavity, such that the temp inside the cavity probably did not rise much during the 'defrost cycle'. Is that not the case?

If the really were a problem with an 'upright auto defrost freezer' and IF one was concerned about the (extremely small) power cut-related 'risks', then that would presumably be a reason for not buying such a freezer, wouldn't it?