Hob isolator switch

[Jurassicspark]

Considering most older installations had the cooker switch dead centre right above the hob/cooker,

That isn’t an inherent problem tied to an oven isolator.

I really can't see anyone turning that off while a frying pan is on fire on that cooker.

And I really can’t see how someone would plan to install it in that particular location.

The only two purposes of cooker switches are isolating while working on a hard-wired appliance/replacing that appliance -

Can’t that be achieved by turning off the MCB or RCBO?

Which then leads me to wonder as to why some people on here fuss about fan isolators..

 

[EFLImpudence]

Which then leads me to wonder as to why some people on here fuss about fan isolators..

The same reason you are making a fuss about the lack of cooker isolator regulations.

Obviously you disagree with the situation but that's the way it is.

 

[Murdochcat]

Two reasons for having an isolator

1. To provide DP isolation , so the appliance is properly disconnected from the fuseboard and possibly tripping the RCD

2. To avoid having a live cable flopping around in a kitchen

Personally I have always fitted them. It’s not an expensive addition

 

[securespark]

Historically, there has been a requirement for a switch for a cooker or such-like.

The 11th Ed. says a switch shall be in an adjacent and readily accessible position.

The 13th says a switch shall be arranged to disconnect the appliance from all live supply conductors, preferably in the same room, but mounted apart from it within easy reach.
In non-domestic premises, the switch can be installed in a separate room.

The 14th says a switch must be installed separate from the appliance and within 6 feet. Where two appliances are installed, one switch may be used provided neither appliance is more than 6 feet from the switch.

The 15th says the same, except that 6 feet is replaced with 2m.

The 16th says that every fixed or stationary appliance which may give rise to a hazard in normal use connected to the supply other than by plug and socket shall be provided with a means of interrupting the supply on load. It may be incorporated in the appliance, but if not, shall be readily accessible. Where two or more appliances are installed in the same room, one interrupting means may be used to control them all.

Thereafter, specific rules for cooking/ fixed appliances disappear, but there are still obviously regs for emergency and functional switching.

 

[Jurassicspark]

Obviously you disagree with the situation but that's the way it is.

Disagreeing with the situation where isolating from the isolator is seen as the only justifiable solution, instead of isolating it from the MCB (especially when it’s only worked on infrequently?)

Or is it acceptable to hide an isolator in an inaccessible place in one that doesn’t isolate the oven/hob in an emergency? Given the bizarre placement of some consumer units, That’s just irresponsible.

Issolating in emergencies and aiding in fault finding by switching off the neutral has its merit, yes.

And yes, I also agree that the ability to turn it off in an emergency should be a priority. But if that’s the case, we shouldn’t be allowing practices that limit or hinder this basic function, enshrining unsafe methods as acceptable.

The same reason you are making a fuss about the lack of cooker isolator regulations.

But do the fan isolators ever warrant emergency turn off compared to an oven/hob?

 

[Jurassicspark]

And I'm guessing the culture of installing a cooker control unit originally comes from the regulations concerning exclusive circuits that supply one fixed appliance.

I don't know. Why would that be?

Suich as an immersion heater, night storage radiators or peak room heaters on their own final circuit or electric showers.

The 16th says that every fixed or stationary appliance which may give rise to a hazard in normal use connected to the supply other than by plug and socket shall be provided with a means of interrupting the supply on load. It may be incorporated in the appliance, but if not, shall be readily accessible.

 

[Jurassicspark]

To avoid having a live cable flopping around in a kitchen

If the part of an oven isolator's sole intent is to prevent a live cable from not flopping around, then why wouldn't you not simply install an appropriate isolator or blanking plate upon removing the oven? Both would not negate the safety equally, so what exactly is the justification for not having an isolator in the first place if it’s not fulfilling a clearer purpose?

 

[EFLImpudence]

Disagreeing with the situation where isolating from the isolator is seen as the only justifiable solution, instead of isolating it from the MCB (especially when it’s only worked on infrequently?)

Or is it acceptable to hide an isolator in an inaccessible place in one that doesn’t isolate the oven/hob in an emergency? Given the bizarre placement of some consumer units, That’s just irresponsible.

Issolating in emergencies and aiding in fault finding by switching off the neutral has its merit, yes.

And yes, I also agree that the ability to turn it off in an emergency should be a priority. But if that’s the case, we shouldn’t be allowing practices that limit or hinder this basic function, enshrining unsafe methods as acceptable.


But do the fan isolators ever warrant emergency turn off compared to an oven/hob?

Feel free to do whatever you want.
I have told you what the regulations say about local isolation - nothing.


I don't think dogs should be allowed - but they are; that's just the way it is

 

[securespark]

Call me old school, but I fitted isolators above the worktop for cookers post 16th Ed.

I put them 400mm away from the cooker or hob or sink.

 

[EFLImpudence]

OK so have I - but the regulations do not say you have to.

It's not my fault.

 

[securespark]

I don't think I have blamed you for anything!

7671 also says it is the minimum standard. In other words, you can "exceed" the regulations.

 

[Jurassicspark]

OK so have I - but the regulations do not say you have to.

But if there was a specific regulation regarding having an isolator, isolating the hob or oven, what do you believe would be the primary reasoning behind the enforcement?

 

[EFLImpudence]

But if there was a specific regulation regarding having an isolator, isolating the hob or oven,

There isn't.

what do you believe would be the primary reasoning behind the enforcement?

You had become a member of JPEL

 

[Alison556]

The live had come loose so a simple fix thankfully.

 

[mikehammer69]

Hopefully if all tightened correctly and no damage to switch

Probably 50/50 you'll be revisiting the issue