Soldier F.

[Knave of Hearts]

No but the RUC was having problems with control of riots. The army was deployed.

The RUC were predominantly Protestant, and did not represent the population they were policing.

During the Troubles, the RUC was overwhelmingly Protestant, with Catholic representation being consistently low and never exceeding approximately 8% of the full-time force.

As morqthana has shown the RUC demonstrated a systemic discrimination in dealing with Catholic and Protestant issues.
This extrapolated the divisions between the population, where Catholics wanted equality, and Protestants were reluctant to cede their dominance.

 

[Knave of Hearts]

... but there was problems way before the army was deployed there

Yes, caused by the RUC and other government agencies' systemic discrimination.

 

[Knave of Hearts]

Read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles#Collusion_between_security_forces_and_paramilitaries

Vinty is a protestant loyalist, and will not consider any other version of history other than his own.

 

[fillyboy]

Vinty is a protestant loyalist, and will not consider any other version of history other than his own.

He also lives there, probably was there throughout at least part of the troubles and has family who were directly involved. In short, he probably knows a damn sight more about it than you do.

 

[Knave of Hearts]

No s. Sherlock.

It was a response to fillystine's insistence that the blight cause the famine. It didn't, it caused the loss of the staple diet. See below.

A bold claim, considering the blight spread across Europe.

But rest of Europe did not suffer nor experience a famine because they had access to alternatives.
Access to alternatives which was denied to the Irish by the English control of exports, land use and rents.

 

[Knave of Hearts]

He also lives there, probably was there throughout at least part of the troubles and has family who were directly involved. In short, he probably knows a damn sight more about it than you do.

He knows his own version of history. He's been taught it since he was a child.
He was subjected to the partisan version of history, it's in his DNA and he can't see around it, under it, nor above it.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

He also lives there, probably was there throughout at least part of the troubles and has family who were directly involved. In short, he probably knows a damn sight more about it than you do.

But biased.

And we see a lot of that

 

[Odds]

It was a response to fillystine's insistence that the blight cause the famine. It didn't, it caused the loss of the staple diet. See below.

But rest of Europe did not suffer nor experience a famine because they had access to alternatives.
Access to alternatives which was denied to the Irish by the English control of exports, land use and rents.

Yes, Europe experienced a famine despite alternative food supplies which the English denied Ireland due to political wrangling over the Corn Laws. The argument over tariffs is not a modern phenomenon, but repealing the corn laws after a rebellion in the HoC enabled free trade to flourish.

 

[Vinty]

And this:

• "Stevens Inquiry: Key people". BBC News. 17 April 2003. Archived from the original on 14 September 2007.
• "Scandal of Ulster's secret war" Archived at the Wayback Machine, The Guardian,
• "Security forces aided loyalist murders" Archived at the Wayback Machine, BBC News,
• "Obituary: Brian Nelson". The Guardian. London, UK. 17 April 2003. Archived from the original on 18 September 2019.
• Clayton, Pamela (1996). Enemies and Passing Friends: Settler ideologies in twentieth-century Ulster. Pluto Press. p. 156. More recently, the resurgence in loyalist violence that led to their carrying out more killings than republicans from the beginning of 1992 until their ceasefire (a fact widely reported in Northern Ireland) was still described as following 'the IRA's well-tested tactic of trying to usurp the political process by violence' ...
• "Deadly Intelligence: State Involvement in Loyalist Murder in Northern Ireland – Summary" Archived at the Wayback Machine, cain.ulst.ac.uk.
• Human Rights in Northern Ireland: Hearing before the Committee on International Relations of the United States House of Representatives, 24 June 1997. US Government Printing Office, 1997.
• Stevens Enquiry 3: Overview & Recommendations Archived at the Wayback Machine , madden-finucane.com,
• "NI police colluded with killers" Archived at the Wayback Machine. BBC News,
• "Bombshell documentary uncovers Government collusion with loyalist paramilitaries" Archived at the Wayback Machine, Belfast Telegraph,
• David McKittrick. Lost Lives. Mainstream Publishing, 1999. p. 724.
• Stephen Howe, "Killing Fields", New Statesman, 14 February 2000.
• The Cassel Report (2006) Archived 20 February 2015 at the Wayback Machine, p. 68.
• Houses of the Oireachtas, Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights (2003). "The Barron Report" (PDF). Oireachtas. p. 135. Archived (PDF)
• "Loughinisland: Ombudsman confirms collusion between police and loyalist killers" Archived at the Wayback Machine. BBC News,

That's just conspiracy theory bollax, some of these people will say or write any old nonsense to get people to buy their books or watch their documentaries.
How many members of the security forces have actually been charged with collusion.

 

[Vinty]

The RUC were predominantly Protestant, and did not represent the population they were policing.

As morqthana has shown the RUC demonstrated a systemic discrimination in dealing with Catholic and Protestant issues.
This extrapolated the divisions between the population, where Catholics wanted equality, and Protestants were reluctant to cede their dominance.

You do talk nonsense.
The reason for any religious imbalance in the RUC was because the Roman Catholic Church discouraged and in some cases threatened to excommunicate Catholics who joined the RUC.
The IRA threatened to kill any Catholic who joined the Police.
Despite the threats there were many Loyal Catholics who joined up, in fact the RUC was 10% Catholic, most of them were in the higher ranks up to Chief Constable.

So stop quoting the Jeremy Corbyn version of history.

 

[martygturner]

Having done two tours in NI we spent more considerably more time supporting the RUC on Drugs, people and general cross boarder smuggling, ransom demands - people and businesses, armed robbers, counterfeiters than we ever did policing the troubles, a role the army was not equipped for... when there is any break down of society the field opens for criminality, which just rebrands itself as freedom fighter / terrorist - dependant on the side you are on. See FARC, Mexican cartels, Mogadishu, Columbia, etc etc.

We have never had any enquiry into who benefited from the troubles, fortunes were made so who made them ? We did three months on Diesel washing, getting shot of the red dye in low tax diesel, one small load would come across in a vehicle so un roadworthy it all was got pulled, next a bomb, or rifle discharge, we hunker down...and a clear run for the others.

Here is an interesting fact, in July 1988 135 Garda all retired from service on the same day...after the British government put pressure on Dublin to sanitise their workforce...

For all the talk of freedom, united Ireland etc etc the question really is who would benefit least from that and are they the ones in power ? On paper Gerry Adams is worth 5 million, how much he is really worth ?

In fairness to Major and Blair the troubles only waned when they sorted out the RUC and made it into a proper Police force that's primary mission was stopping crime not stopping terrorism.. no money no conflict and it worked.

 

[Knave of Hearts]

Yes, Europe experienced a famine ....

They experienced shortages, it was a food crisis, but Europe didn't experience a famine in the way that ireland did.
It was the other exacerbating factors, previously mentioned, that caused the devastating effects in Ireland.
The population was reduced by about 25%. Not all were through death because of the famine. There was also many emigrating, especially to America, to escape the famine. About 1,000,000 emigrated from Ireland during the famine.

 

[Knave of Hearts]

...
How many members of the security forces have actually been charged with collusion.

One soldier F has been charged with murder, despite the fact that security forces were responsible for 10% of civilian deaths.

Security forces were responsible for 10% of overall deaths, and 10% of civilian deaths.
So were the security forces responsible for any paramilitary deaths?

More than 3,500 people were killed in the conflict, of whom 52% were civilians, 32% were members of the British security forces, and 16% were members of paramilitary groups.[9] Republic paramilitaries were responsible for 60% of total deaths, followed by loyalist paramilitaries at 30% and security forces at 10%.[39] Loyalists were responsible for 48% of all civilian deaths, however, followed by republicans at 39% and security forces at 10%

The Troubles - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Knave of Hearts]

The reason for any religious imbalance in the RUC was because the Roman Catholic Church discouraged and in some cases threatened to excommunicate Catholics who joined the RUC.

There were some clergy, (not the Church, per se) that discouraged joining the RUC, but there also some clergy who encouraged it.

The IRA threatened to kill any Catholic who joined the Police.

There was community pressure on Catholic RUC, and sometimes they had to move away from their Catholic neighbourhood.
All and any RUC were targeted, and as 10% of the RUC were Catholics, it would be highly surprising if no Catholic RUC were killed.
319 RUC were killed during the troubles, 44 of them were Catholic. So statistically, there were only slightly more Catholic RUC killed than Protestants.

Despite the threats there were many Loyal Catholics who joined up, in fact the RUC was 10% Catholic, most of them were in the higher ranks up to Chief Constable.

That's true, but there was still only 10% of Catholic comprised the RUC because they were perceived as an arm of the occupying power.
For Catholics, in general, it was never a natural ambition for school leavers to consider joining the RUC, in the way that it was for Protestants.

 

[morqthana]

That's just conspiracy theory bollax, some of these people will say or write any old nonsense to get people to buy their books or watch their documentaries.
How many members of the security forces have actually been charged with collusion.

That's just internet forum bollax. Some people on internet forums will write or say any old nonsense when the truth runs counter to their ingrained prejudices and blind bigotry.