Energy v cost, do people really not know the difference?

[JohnW2]

Oh goodness I did thi s0.375/44.5*24*365 and even repeated when it didn't agree with yours

Goodness know how you arrived at that ...

The 0.375 should be 0,357 (although that could be a typo in your post). I have no idea where the 44.5 came from and, perhaps, most important, the calculation you indicate gives a result of about 73.82 (which is 'way off' and is none of the figures you've previously suggested)

 

[ericmark]

Well the microwave, once I could read the monitor, has used 0.33 kWh over a day, and shows zero for watts and amps when not in use except for the clock.

As to back-ground use, yes, my 400 watt seems rather high, but cost wise, my monthly bill since moving to Octopus has been rather low, I note account balance £571.56 in credit. But I am now using power, £29 up to now, this month. Last month minus £1.66. With bills like that, I do not really worry too much.

Once I have been with Octopus a year, I will adjust the payment, but even if not a drain on the bank account, I still want to find out where the energy is going. I think I need a plug and socket with three leads between the two, so I can use the clamp-on. 1 mA at 230 volts = 0.23 watts, but the energy monitor does not show under 1 watt.

But we do forget what is plugged in. My battery charger says 200 watts, output 2 x 21.5 volt at 4.5 amp, so could be wasting 6.5 watt if left plugged in after charging the pair of batteries, but seems more likely rounding up or down, but I like my battery drills, garden tools, etc. Still have my old B&D drill, as it powers the lathe etc. But not used a mains powered drill in years.

Be it a touch, tablet, phone, or drill, I have a load of rechargeable stuff, which still costs to use it.

What is more of a worry, is a tumble drier with a delayed start, which every so often sees fit to tumble the clothes, even if no heat or cooling energised. Why it does it, don't know, could understand after dried to stop creasing, but before drying, why.

The washing machine also a small problem, wet detergent will drain from the dispenser into the machine, the dispenser is OK for powder, but we put wet detergent into a ball placed so it does not go onto the clothes until the machine starts, but again, it tumbles the dry clothes while counting down to start, so neat detergent on the clothes, not what I want.

So to set them at 23:30 to start at 00:30 not so bad, but to set at 20:00 not so good. Also, the delay time, to start with, set in 30 minute increments, but as the delay gets longer, the increments also get longer, lucky I am on Octopus Go so 5 hour off-peak slot, but Octopus Agile has only a 3-hour off-peak slot, and when a tumble drier runs for 2.5 hours, that's a problem.

And also time of main meal of the day, if at 2 pm, then likely the battery will recharge before the evening, but at 5 pm, cooking can cause the battery to run out. But is it worth changing a lifestyle, to use less money, note not less power, it is just what we pay for the power.

So returning to that 400 watt back-ground use, that is likely going to be turned into heat, so it's likely reducing the amount of oil used, so in Winter is it really a problem?

I was surprised to see 145 watt going to heat the domestic hot water, the central heating boiler is set to a higher temperature as to the immersion heater, so thought would no longer be using electric. I thought at least, but just looked and 29.44 kWh used in last 28 days, not bad, as either off-peak or solar, but that does explain some of that 400 watt base use.

Furthermore, I would really like to only need one oil delivery per year, and using the immersion helps that happen.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

I was surprised to see 145 watt going to heat the domestic hot water, the central heating boiler is set to a higher temperature as to the immersion heater, so thought would no longer be using electric. I thought at least, but just looked and 29.44 kWh used in last 28 days, not bad, as either off-peak or solar, but that does explain some of that 400 watt base use.

We've been making good use of the free Octopus power, when they announce it, by putting the immersion heater on. What I notice is, despite the immersion heater being satisfied, that the gas boiler still starts up, heating water in the cylinder, to heat up the extra few inches below the immersion element.

Now the CH is getting some use, a side effect, is that my MOMO valve is settling in the CH position last thing at night -thus preventing the heat loss, from warmed water, circulating back to the boiler, to be cooled down. The net effect, is that the cylinder only looses 4C from 8pm to next mid-day, in winter, versus the 15C it looses in the summer, when the CH is not used.

 

[JohnW2]

We've been making good use of the free Octopus power, when they announce it, by putting the immersion heater on. What I notice is, despite the immersion heater being satisfied, that the gas boiler still starts up, heating water in the cylinder, to heat up the extra few inches below the immersion element.

If you don't want that to happen, couldn't you move the cylinder stat (which I presume is what is controlling the boiler?) a bit higher up on the cylinder (and/or adjust the settings of the immersion's stat and the cylinder one)?

 

[ericmark]

My immersion heater is controlled by an iboost+ which in hindsight is not the best idea, but the gains using a simple time clock are not worth the cost of changing it.

 

[SUNRAY]

.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

If you don't want that to happen, couldn't you move the cylinder stat (which I presume is what is controlling the boiler?) a bit higher up on the cylinder (and/or adjust the settings of the immersion's stat and the cylinder one)?

It's not a stat, it's an actual temperature sensor, reporting to the control system the actual temperature. It's installed, at the same level on the cylinder, as the old stat was, which is a little above the gas heating coil. It's not a problem, as such.

 

[petebuiltit]

I don't have a smart meter, so I hooked up a Shelly EM clamp on the meter tails and it records electric used and shows live usage. It's good to see how power usage changes over the course of the day, plus switching things on and off and watching the change in power.

 

[JohnW2]

It's not a stat, it's an actual temperature sensor, reporting to the control system the actual temperature.

Fair enough but, functionally, it's the 'same difference"

It's installed, at the same level on the cylinder, as the old stat was, which is a little above the gas heating coil. It's not a problem, as such.

Again, fair enough. As I said, if you did regard it as a problem, then presumably you could solve it by moving the sensor up a bit or, if you can, telling whatever it is that's receiving information from the sensor to turn the boiler off at a somewhat lower temp?

 

[morqthana]

Indeed. Clocks (as in things like cookers) are the pain, and a serious deterrent to completely switching off some of these things. I would have thought that they really ought to have some battery back-up for the clocks.

I always thought the need for manual intervention was to prevent any risks of a cooking appliance restarting, without people knowing, after a power cut.

But if you're not bothered about being able to tell the time by looking at your oven, restarting the clock at 00:00 is very quick, so not really even a trivial deterrent to turning it off completely.

 

[JohnW2]

I always thought the need for manual intervention was to prevent any risks of a cooking appliance restarting, without people knowing, after a power cut.

Well, for a start, I can think of plenty of other items of domestic electric equipment which would pose at least as great a danger if they 'restarted after a power cut without people knowing', but which don't have such 'NVR' functionality. In any event, even if things (like cookers) do have such functionality, there's no reason why it has to stop the clock 'being maintained'.

The problem is not in having to, say, press a 'reset' button (which would be trivial), it's that the clock loses its memory of the time. When main-powered equipment has a clock, one generally expects there to be some (batter or capacitor) 'backup', so that it does not 'forget' the time if it loses mains power.

But if you're not bothered about being able to tell the time by looking at your oven, restarting the clock at 00:00 is very quick, so not really even a trivial deterrent to turning it off completely.

I'm not so sure about that. I think that many people (including myself) would probably find it very irritating (and potentially confusing) to have a clock displaying the incorrect time. It wouldn't be so bad if, after being "re-started it at 00:00" it continued to display that time for ever, but once it 'starts ticking' it will display an actual time which, on occasions, might be close enough to actual time to be potentially confusion.

For that reason, I suspect that many people would 'feel compelled' to reset the clock to the correct time, and that that would represent a lot more than a 'trivial deterrent' to turning the equipment off completely

 

[petebuiltit]

Cookers and microwaves should update over the air. It's a pain keep resetting them after a power cycle.

 

[JohnW2]

Cookers and microwaves should update over the air. It's a pain keep resetting them after a power cycle.

Yes, that's another way of maintaining a clock - as I just wrote, the 'traditional method being with a battery or capacitor.

 

[petebuiltit]

Yes, that's another way of maintaining a clock - as I just wrote, the 'traditional method being with a battery or capacitor.

Yes, a capacitor is a good idea.

 

[SUNRAY]

How would a battery maintain our mechanical syncronous cooker clock?