Loft clear-out and rewire

[stevipop]

Thanks SUNRAY. I've been left no slack whatsoever between roses and switches, so it's all too short, hence the clear-out and upgrade. Also, the single from the Room 2 ceiling rose is really overstressed as it disappears down the conduit switch drop. The PVC sheathing has definitely seen better days.

Thanks again, EFLImpudence, I think that's going to help a lot in the long run.

I'll post a final draught of the diagram soon, which I'll print and use during the upgrade. If anyone notices something that needs a red flag, please chime in.

 

[stevipop]

Hopefully, this is OK:

Just one last thing: Has anyone used Vaseline to grease cables prior to them going through a conduit?

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Just one last thing: Has anyone used Vaseline to grease cables prior to them going through a conduit?

I don't know, but I would be wary of it...

I do think you are over-thinking the entire job....

If you are rewiring, then the basic idea should be to have no joints at all in the wiring, no joint boxes, no wago's. You L&N&E, coming up from the mains, needs to go to the nearest rose, then simply loop to the rest, in turn, via the shortest, most logical route.

L&N&E, should simply loop around all of the ceiling roses, with a switch drop from each rose, to the switch.

Alternatively, the L&N&E could be looped into each switch, and a switch wire + neutral taken up to the rose. That method would be out of the question, if you are trying to squeeze the multiple cables, down an existing conduit.

 

[SUNRAY]

Hopefully, this is OK:
View attachment 399134

Just one last thing: Has anyone used Vaseline to grease cables prior to them going through a conduit?

KY is better than vaseline as it dried non sticky, yellow 77 is even better, however for a simple switch drop I'd expect to not need anything as long as the wire is kept straight without kinks.

 

[SUNRAY]

I don't know, but I would be wary of it...

I do think you are over-thinking the entire job....

If you are rewiring, then the basic idea should be to have no joints at all in the wiring, no joint boxes, no wago's. You L&N&E, coming up from the mains, needs to go to the nearest rose, then simply loop to the rest, in turn, via the shortest, most logical route.

L&N&E, should simply loop around all of the ceiling roses, with a switch drop from each rose, to the switch.

Alternatively, the L&N&E could be looped into each switch, and a switch wire + neutral taken up to the rose. That method would be out of the question, if you are trying to squeeze the multiple cables, down an existing conduit.

I've been assuming there is only one JB and all the others on the diagram are ceiling roses, have I got that wrong?

If the intention is to almost completely rewire then yes I agree the better option is to remove any JBs by having any junctions at fittings.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Hopefully, this is OK:

Looks alright.

Bit of sleeving on the black wire ?

 

[EFLImpudence]

I've been assuming there is only one JB and all the others on the diagram are ceiling roses, have I got that wrong?

#me too

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

I've been assuming there is only one JB and all the others on the diagram are ceiling roses, have I got that wrong?

I've no idea, I didn't study the diagrams, for such a simple task.

 

[flameport]

Hopefully, this is OK:

Two things:

Using the single and twin cable in that way between upstairs/downstairs is a poor choice as it will create significant EMI.
Switch cables should be 3C&E so that a neutral is available at the switch position.

 

[stevipop]

Bit of sleeving on the black wire ?

Oops, yep
Thanks, will amend before printing, oh, and yes, to yourself and SUNRAY, one junction box; roses and switches the rest.

I've no idea, I didn't study the diagrams, for such a simple task.

Harry, I worked in the magnesium industry for 39 years, casting molten metal at up to 740°C, less than half a metre away from me, and from my perspective, that was a simple task, too. Just saying.

flameport, it's been like that for 46 years that I know of, never been changed. During my survey, I realised that a lot of poor choices had been made, and not just the one you alluded to, but it was all done well before we moved in the place. Hey-ho.

Many thanks all for the input you've given, I can get on with it now in confidence.

 

[SUNRAY]

Oops, yep
Thanks, will amend before printing, oh, and yes, to yourself and SUNRAY, one junction box; roses and switches the rest.

If you are replacing so much cable with new the landing light will look like this without a junction box but withspare conductors in the T&Es.

As opposed to this

That all depends on you being able to 2 cables into the landing light.

Harry, I worked in the magnesium industry for 39 years, casting molten metal at up to 740°C, less than half a metre away from me, and from my perspective, that was a simple task, too. Just saying.

flameport, it's been like that for 46 years that I know of, never been changed. During my survey, I realised that a lot of poor choices had been made, and not just the one you alluded to, but it was all done well before we moved in the place. Hey-ho.

Many thanks all for the input you've given, I can get on with it now in confidence.

 

[stevipop]

If you are replacing so much cable with new the landing light will look like this without a junction box but withspare conductors in the T&Es.

We're stuck with the Wago box I'm afraid. Whoever installed the light decided that only one T&E was going down there. No surprise, really. They also offset the drop (about 1200mm), from the stairwell ceiling to the fixture, which I've always been told is bad practise:

Thanks for the suggestion anyway

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Harry, I worked in the magnesium industry for 39 years, casting molten metal at up to 740°C, less than half a metre away from me, and from my perspective, that was a simple task, too. Just saying.

The point I was making, is that the task is so simple, it just doesn't justify a need for a drawing at all. I have never heard of anyone having a need for such a circuit diagram for a simple house lighting. What might be useful, is a simple record of which order the L&N&E, was looped from the mains, around each light on the circuit.

 

[morqthana]

We're stuck with the Wago box I'm afraid. Whoever installed the light decided that only one T&E was going down there. No surprise, really. They also offset the drop (about 1200mm), from the stairwell ceiling to the fixture, which I've always been told is bad practise:
View attachment 399178

If it really is similar to your drawing, and not like the path I've shown in red:

it's a bit more than just "bad practice".

 

[SUNRAY]

Harry, I worked in the magnesium industry for 39 years, casting molten metal at up to 740°C, less than half a metre away from me, and from my perspective, that was a simple task, too. Just saying.

The point I was making, is that the task is so simple, it just doesn't justify a need for a drawing at all. I have never heard of anyone having a need for such a circuit diagram for a simple house lighting. What might be useful, is a simple record of which order the L&N&E, was looped from the mains, around each light on the circuit.

This is one of the reasons I dislike messages (particularly in SMS where they are kept brief) as the meaning is so easily lost for one reason or another. They may be poorly written or incorrectly read/interpreted. I understand exactly what Harry meant and I understand why you took it to mean something different.

Yes to Harry and myself and of course to many others on here, this work you are proposing is really simple bread and butter type work and the thought of a drawing such as yours wouldn't enter our heads.
However the questions you are asking and the drawings you are producing indicate your lack of experience and the need for detailed planning before you start. Some of the less professional members on here are incapable of seeing that and may blunder on treating you as a fool or idiot. My personal view is I'd much rather deal with this effort now; that is before you start work, than afterwards when you have a platefull of spaghetti and no idea how to knit or crochet it back together.