Radiator Sludge

[Harry Bloomfield]

Well, there was no filter before and I didn’t ask for one.

It is a requirement, rather than an option, and the warranty on your boiler, will probably not be valid, unless one has been fitted.

 

[danfre]

Depending on make of boiler and if you are on water meter it is advisable to have a small expansion vessel/ shock arrester.
Good practice would also be to install a scale reducer on the incoming main to protect the plate heat exchange

 

[dilalio]

Depending on make of boiler and if you are on water meter it is advisable to have a small expansion vessel/ shock arrester.
Good practice would also be to install a scale reducer on the incoming main to protect the plate heat exchange

Only if a hard water area.
Can't be arsed to look up if it is... Scotland, no idea without looking.

 

[RainTown]

Only if a hard water area.
Can't be arsed to look up if it is... Scotland, no idea without looking.

Yes, Glasgow is typically considered a hard water area.

As regards a filter, Harry wrote:

“It is a requirement, rather than an option”

Gas Safe guy didn’t mention it, the 2 British Gas services of the Baxi boiler didn’t mention it. One of the power-flush plumbers did say he’d add a filter after the flush was complete.

But original installers are coming back on Monday (assuming they show up), I’ll ask them.

Over the phone they insisted that even if Flow / Return are now wrong way round it “makes absolutely no difference, I’ve been doing this for 20 years mate”, when I suggested the Flow used to be at the top connection and now it’s at the bottom connection in the 4 poorest performing radiators. The 2 that work best are Hall (bottom/bottom connected) , this one works best, and the living room one, which is by far the biggest radiator and seems to have a different internal structure.

 

[denso13]

Gas Safe guy didn’t mention it, the 2 British Gas services of the Baxi boiler didn’t mention it.

Over the phone they insisted that even if Flow / Return are now wrong way round it “makes absolutely no difference, I’ve been doing this for 20 years mate”

You need to find a better quality of installer/plumber.

 

[denso13]

Yes, Glasgow is typically considered a hard water area.

No, as with most of Scotland, it is soft.

 

[endecotp]

Over the phone they insisted that even if Flow / Return are now wrong way round it “makes absolutely no difference, I’ve been doing this for 20 years mate”

“Are you telling me how to do my feckin job? How would you like it if I came round telling you how to do your feckin job you feckin idiot. I’ve swapped flow and return on more boilers than you’ve had hot dinners and no-one else has ever feckin complained, you feckin nob.”

“No we don’t fit those feckin stupid feckin filters. We managed for 1,000 years without them and nobody died. What do you mean, warranty requirement? That’s the first I’ve heard of that, and believe me I would know, no I don’t read any of that stupid feckin bumpf they send me but I would definitely know if I had to fit a fecking filter with every feckin boiler I fitted, I’ve been doing this for 50 years, are you telling me how to do my job, you feckin nob.”


Fairly typical in my experience. As I’ve posted before, there are only about a dozen competent tradesmen in the whole country and they all post on this forum.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

As regards a filter, Harry wrote:

“It is a requirement, rather than an option”

Gas Safe guy didn’t mention it, the 2 British Gas services of the Baxi boiler didn’t mention it. One of the power-flush plumbers did say he’d add a filter after the flush was complete.

To gain efficiency, the boiler manufactures, have reduced the size of the water passages, in modern boilers, to the point where they are easily blocked by debris in the circulated water. As a means to avoid this, many/all insist that you fit a filter, to reduce the debris, and your boilers warranty will be dependent on one having been installed, as well as the seemed being flushed.

Your best way forward, is to read the small print in your boilers warranty document, and the installation manual.

It is also a requirement to meet Part L of the Building Regulations....

However, on 15 June 2022, Part L of the Building Regulations changed. Part L is the section that deals with heating in the home. The Best Practice document is becoming a requirement of the Building Regulations, and when a new boiler is fitted, the installer must carry out the following steps:

1. Clean: carry out a system clean and flush
2. Filter: fit an in-line filter
3. Inhibit: add scale and corrosion inhibitor to the heating system, low temperature systems must also include a biocide
4. Maintain: at every annual boiler service they must also clean and service the filter and check the levels of inhibitor in the system water.

 

[dilalio]

In layman's terms...

Sludged up system are present in 1000s if not millions of properties.
National gas usage would be reduced dramatically if all systems were clean and treated.

 

[Elsa TLC]

Thanks for the answer.

2 different matters, though of course same property. The whole Gas Safe aspect was to do with the Baxi boiler installation ca: 2 years ago, which I included to give some context/background.

The sludge issue, or rather the "some radiators dont get very hot at all, very patchy at best" is the "now" issue.

I would always want to powerflush the system if fitting a New boiler.

The system is not always suitable for a PF.
However the stage you at Id look for a decent company to come and inspect the system and give you their best advice.

Finding someone decent is another problem.

 

[dilalio]

No, as with most of Scotland, it is soft.

 

[RainTown]

Again, thanks for all input, and the correction on hard/soft water in Scotland part.

The original boiler install guys were supposed to come earlier in the week, not unsurprisingly they didn't show up.

A couple of quotes from recent posts:

"You need to find a better quality of installer/plumber."

Probably, yes.

"Finding someone decent is another problem."

Yep.

"... The installer must carry out the following steps:

1. Clean: carry out a system clean and flush
2. Filter: fit an in-line filter
3. Inhibit: add scale and corrosion inhibitor to the heating system, low temperature systems must also include a biocide
4. Maintain: at every annual boiler service they must also clean and service the filter and check the levels of inhibitor in the system water.

"

For info, there was no filter fitted. At install time he told me he was adding inhibitor, so I presume he did. The firm were both Gas Safe and Baxi approved installers. The British Gas service guy has not mentioned lack of filter, and they know the boiler was installed in 2024, after the regulations were apparently changed on 15 June 2022.

I'm a consumer. I am obviously not an expert, actually no real clue, on the various codes / regulations. I should not be expected to be.

This thread has been pretty depressing. There is a couple of ways to read it, not completely mutually exclusive:

Interpretation A: I am close to an idiot, as obviously I cannot choose/find a decent plumber/installer to do good work. I've not asked the right questions, but I should ignore Gas Safe registered (pretty much meaningless) or Baxi approved (same) as neither Gas Safe nor Baxi actually really care if the heating system (as a whole) on a new boiler install is correct. TBOE connected radiators, with flow at bottom, is often wrong, but 50%+ of the plumbers/installers have told me it "does not matter". Baxi support told me "flow/return reversed doesn't matter to the boiler, but to the overall system it would be more important". I'm not sure that a filter is mandatory, but anyways I did not get one, and none of Gas Safe, Baxi, nor the British Gas service guy mentioned it.

Interpretation B: Effectively I was unlucky. The original installer made some mistakes, and as its not safety related the Gas Safe guy didn't pick it up Flow/Return mixup, not did British Gas service guy cos he didn't (and is not expected to) check Flow/Return, and in fairness it was not that obvious. Other tradesmen I've spoken to are either a bit put off by the history, and there is a industry tendency to recommend power flushes a bit too easily, but there's plenty of systems where a power flush would help so thats not necessarily that bad.

Whatever of this his closest, or a mix of the two, I am suggested to throw the dice again, find someone else who is a "better quality installer/plumber".

 

[denso13]

I'm not sure that a filter is mandatory

With respect, you've been shown that it is mandatory. I agree that you don't know what you don't know, but you seem reluctant to accept the facts.

 

[RainTown]

With respect, you've been shown that it is mandatory. I agree that you don't know what you don't know, but you seem reluctant to accept the facts.

No, I am not reluctant. IMO I am opposite in fact, I am eager to learn new things.

But "facts:" have a higher bar than, respectfully, denso13 wrote so in a forum post.

Nonetheless, point taken, I will check this with Baxi Support. (There's little point me asking the installer, as I would not put any faith on his reply)

 

[denso13]

Nonetheless, point taken, I will check this with Baxi Support

Baxi say a filter "must" be fitted, in line with the regulations imposed in 2022.

Do I have to have a Magnetic Boiler Filter installed | Baxi FAQs

Fitting a filter is considered best practice when installing a new boiler. The installer must carry out the following steps when a new boiler is fitted...

www.baxi.co.uk