Selecting a roofer

[Phil473]

Once again a tradesperson has provided a sub standard service, and naturally is trying to avoid putting it right. And once again, even if he does put it right it may again fail and I'll have to pay someone else to do the job. By which time, prices may have gone up.

Had a leak at the chimeny base, roofer repaired and installed new cement and flashing which now leaks more than before.

So I'm considering just getting a new roofer to sort the problem out properly.

In the past, I employed a roofer that was on checkatrade (irrelevant I know), listed Federation of Masterr Builders, Confederation of Roofing Contrators. The new roofs leaked three times in less than a couple of years. The Confederation of Roofing Contractors were helpful and stepped in. But I can't trust their listed tradepeople to provide a quality service, based on this experience.

It seems to be very difficult to get a good roofer, and tradesperson in general. You follow all the advice, check the reviews even ask the neighbours. Suggestions appreciated.

 

[blup]

Post a few pics and an explanation of the problem and you will get some advice that will help you to assess the suitability of the roofer. Word of mouth is the best recommendation IME

 

[Phil473]

The roofer I mentioned above actually was recommended by a neighbour. Neighbours flat roof has been fine, mine leaked 3 times.

Existing problem has been with new cement and flashing, to base of chimney, on pitched roof. Had it done last year, failed this year. I'll try and get roofer to put it right, as it shouldn't fail this early.

As the roof may be the original 100 year old roof, I may well just get a new roof. Otherwise, the repairs are going to mount up.

 

[^woody^]

Neighbours flat roof has been fine

So, is this "roofer", a flat roof or a pitched roof roofer?

 

[Si_]

Let me know when you find the answer. 5* reviews are worthless. Recommendations are a waste of time too, because even if they're unsolicited by the roofer, they need to be recent, for similar work and - importantly - you have to know the same individuals will be doing your job as did the recommended job. Many roofers now have teams working for them that they can't control and have little to no expertise, or willingness to do anything but skive. So you might get a recommendation by someone who had the boss on the job only to find that when it's your turn, two monkeys turn up at 11am, sit in their van for 20 minutes rolling fags, throw litter on your lawn, **** against your shed, go to the pie shop, visit 'the yard' for 90 minutes because they forgot to bring slates or mortar to the slate replacement and pointing job, then complain it's too dark to do anything and disappear leaving a hole in your roof.

 

[Phil473]

The flat roof and pitched roof were two different jobs, done by different companies.

My concern at present, is the pitched roof.

 

[Phil473]

Let me know when you find the answer. 5* reviews are worthless. Recommendations are a waste of time too, because even if they're unsolicited by the roofer, they need to be recent, for similar work and - importantly - you have to know the same individuals will be doing your job as did the recommended job. Many roofers now have teams working for them that they can't control and have little to no expertise, or willingness to do anything but skive. So you might get a recommendation by someone who had the boss on the job only to find that when it's your turn, two monkeys turn up at 11am, sit in their van for 20 minutes rolling fags, throw litter on your lawn, **** against your shed, go to the pie shop, visit 'the yard' for 90 minutes because they forgot to bring slates or mortar to the slate replacement and pointing job, then complain it's too dark to do anything and disappear leaving a hole in your roof.

In actual fact, he did indeed send his workers to do the job and not attend himself.

That was for the flat roof job. What's happening now is an issue with the pitched roof, the 'repair,' was done by a different company. It's been given a temporary patch up by a local roofer via home insurance, but I need a permanent solution.

The roof is old, perhaps a century. So now I'm considering a new roof, as these repairs are adding up.

 

[robinbanks]

Reusing slates can take some of the sting out of it. If you're doing for a reroof, consider taking that once in a lifetime opportunity to insulate as it's never easier than from above, and gain some habitable loft space

Suggestions appreciated.

DIY? The principles of roofing aren't hard, and are frequently grasped by people with more teeth than brain cells

Do you still use the chimney? If no, do away with it; no more leaks then!

 

[Phil473]

On my other thread, I'm trying to understand what a 'new roof,' actually entails.

If they were to reuse the tiles and not alter/replace the roof structure, they'd be taking off the tiles and putting them back on. Perhaps with additional boards (called sheaths I think). This is where I get confused about the terms 'reroof,' and 'new roof.'

I'm thinking additional boards (sheaths) would affect ventilation, even as is the loft gets a little condensation. And there's already a fair draft in there.

The insulation is a good point, would actually like to have the loft heated, to store delicate items. But would need good ventilation. Plenty of neighbours with complete loft coversions though, so clearly it can be done.

However, would insulation on top of the roof structure, be a considerable increase in weight on the roof structure, especially if we also switch from clay to concrete tiles?

Chimney is unused but shared.

 

[CountryFan]

The roofer I mentioned above actually was recommended by a neighbour. Neighbours flat roof has been fine, mine leaked 3 times.

The flat roof and pitched roof were two different jobs, done by different companies.

This makes no sense to me

 

[blup]

If you do it yourself this YT is an excellent introduction to some of the basic principles. The oldest ones.

Fixmyroof

The new growing online resource for Roofing tips, tricks and know how http//:www.fixmyroof.co.uk

m.youtube.com

 

[Phil473]

If you do it yourself this YT is an excellent introduction to some of the basic principles. The oldest ones.

Fixmyroof

The new growing online resource for Roofing tips, tricks and know how http//:www.fixmyroof.co.uk

m.youtube.com

My DIY skills are basic at best. Could slap on some sealent on a flat roof, that's about it. Want this done properly.

 

[robinbanks]

On my other thread, I'm trying to understand what a 'new roof,' actually entails.

If they were to reuse the tiles and not alter/replace the roof structure, they'd be taking off the tiles and putting them back on.

Battens are renewed as is roofing membrane/felt. Tiles may be renewed depending on condition; concrete tiles have a 50 year lifespan, and I probably wouldn't relay any that had less than 15 years left unless they're was a burning desire to save money now and or blend into a part not being changed (eg reuse good originals from the back on the front and have all new on the back)
Slates can live much longer, maybe 300 years even. You can tell then they're shagged because they sound like wood when tapped with a hammer rather than sounding like a dinner plate would

Perhaps with additional boards (called sheaths I think). This is where I get confused about the terms 'reroof,' and 'new roof.'

I don't think there is a standard definition and those two terms are used interchangeably. It should be clarified what any builder quoting means. The breakdown on the quote should indicate whether coverings are being reused and if they are it will likely be that the quote contains an estimate of how many are good and hence how many additional is will be required with a caveat that the price will rise if more replacements are needed

even as is the loft gets a little condensation. And there's already a fair draft in there.

Then the ventilation that there is, bringing the air that is brought, is inadequate for dealing with the moisture that is getting into the loft from somewhere. There are multiple options to address this, and it's not necessarily given the increase in the ventilation will be the solution. It may be that reducing the moisture entering the loft is the necessary step-I've seen bathroom extract fans and kitchen fans plumbed so they just dump their air straight into the loft space, and even if there's a constant breeze that can lead to condensation

The insulation is a good point, would actually like to have the loft heated, to store delicate items. But would need good ventilation.

If you're heating it you'd need a more controlled ventilation strategy than just leaving it open at eaves and letting it blow through. Insulating it to the degree specified in the building regulations will mean it becomes part of the war envelope of the house and is ventilated as the other rooms are, the amount of which is also specified by the building regulations as such work would be classed as renovation of a large thermal element. You would need building regulations approval for any work that you do.

I can't praise mechanical ventilation systems highly enough in this regard; they absolutely do solve a multitude of problems by creating control ventilation and reducing the amount of money that is lost through paid-for heat drifting out of the building

However, would insulation on top of the roof structure, be a considerable increase in weight on the roof structure, especially if we also switch from clay to concrete tiles?

No. Clay and concrete tiles typically weigh broadly similar and insulation weighs nearly nothing.

Chimney is unused but shared.

Does the other party also not use their side? Would they also be glad of the reading of a potential leak point and also a major heat escape path if it's not been blocked off already?

 

[Phil473]

Battens are renewed as is roofing membrane/felt. Tiles may be renewed depending on condition; concrete tiles have a 50 year lifespan, and I probably wouldn't relay any that had less than 15 years left unless they're was a burning desire to save money now and or blend into a part not being changed (eg reuse good originals from the back on the front and have all new on the back)
Slates can live much longer, maybe 300 years even. You can tell then they're shagged because they sound like wood when tapped with a hammer rather than sounding like a dinner plate would


I don't think there is a standard definition and those two terms are used interchangeably. It should be clarified what any builder quoting means. The breakdown on the quote should indicate whether coverings are being reused and if they are it will likely be that the quote contains an estimate of how many are good and hence how many additional is will be required with a caveat that the price will rise if more replacements are needed


Then the ventilation that there is, bringing the air that is brought, is inadequate for dealing with the moisture that is getting into the loft from somewhere. There are multiple options to address this, and it's not necessarily given the increase in the ventilation will be the solution. It may be that reducing the moisture entering the loft is the necessary step-I've seen bathroom extract fans and kitchen fans plumbed so they just dump their air straight into the loft space, and even if there's a constant breeze that can lead to condensation


If you're heating it you'd need a more controlled ventilation strategy than just leaving it open at eaves and letting it blow through. Insulating it to the degree specified in the building regulations will mean it becomes part of the war envelope of the house and is ventilated as the other rooms are, the amount of which is also specified by the building regulations as such work would be classed as renovation of a large thermal element. You would need building regulations approval for any work that you do.

I can't praise mechanical ventilation systems highly enough in this regard; they absolutely do solve a multitude of problems by creating control ventilation and reducing the amount of money that is lost through paid-for heat drifting out of the building


No. Clay and concrete tiles typically weigh broadly similar and insulation weighs nearly nothing.

Does the other party also not use their side? Would they also be glad of the reading of a potential leak point and also a major heat escape path if it's not been blocked off already?

Excellent information, thank you.

I'll have a re read when I finish work.

 

[Phil473]

Battens are renewed as is roofing membrane/felt. Tiles may be renewed depending on condition; concrete tiles have a 50 year lifespan, and I probably wouldn't relay any that had less than 15 years left unless they're was a burning desire to save money now and or blend into a part not being changed (eg reuse good originals from the back on the front and have all new on the back)
Slates can live much longer, maybe 300 years even. You can tell then they're shagged because they sound like wood when tapped with a hammer rather than sounding like a dinner plate would


I don't think there is a standard definition and those two terms are used interchangeably. It should be clarified what any builder quoting means. The breakdown on the quote should indicate whether coverings are being reused and if they are it will likely be that the quote contains an estimate of how many are good and hence how many additional is will be required with a caveat that the price will rise if more replacements are needed


Then the ventilation that there is, bringing the air that is brought, is inadequate for dealing with the moisture that is getting into the loft from somewhere. There are multiple options to address this, and it's not necessarily given the increase in the ventilation will be the solution. It may be that reducing the moisture entering the loft is the necessary step-I've seen bathroom extract fans and kitchen fans plumbed so they just dump their air straight into the loft space, and even if there's a constant breeze that can lead to condensation


If you're heating it you'd need a more controlled ventilation strategy than just leaving it open at eaves and letting it blow through. Insulating it to the degree specified in the building regulations will mean it becomes part of the war envelope of the house and is ventilated as the other rooms are, the amount of which is also specified by the building regulations as such work would be classed as renovation of a large thermal element. You would need building regulations approval for any work that you do.

I can't praise mechanical ventilation systems highly enough in this regard; they absolutely do solve a multitude of problems by creating control ventilation and reducing the amount of money that is lost through paid-for heat drifting out of the building


No. Clay and concrete tiles typically weigh broadly similar and insulation weighs nearly nothing.

Does the other party also not use their side? Would they also be glad of the reading of a potential leak point and also a major heat escape path if it's not been blocked off already?

So have had another leak to base of chimney, despite temp patch up. Plus noticed a hole in a tile on the other side of the roof, either the roofer last year failed to notice or its new damage.

Home insurance again sent the a roofer round for temp patchup, so probably additional premums coming up.

Time for a new roof, the current one will probably prove to be a financial drain.

Have had one roofer come round, he just took some pictures from the outside and will send them to his boss for a quote. Surely, the inner supports need to be inspected also? I would have also liked to have discussed the option of removing insulation from the loft floor, and putting into new roof.

Ventilation is something that needs to be looked at, condensation is already something we have to be careful of. Venting plus a dehumidifier has solved it but as with our neighbour condensation is something to watch, especially at bedroom bay window. Brilliant heat retention though, super comfortable in winter.

Instead of planning how to get a trader that doesn't cause me issues, I now plan a job based on what to do when it goes wrong. Have had so many bad experiences...

Had a chat with checkatrade, plus one of the roofing organisations I mentioned above. CORC did help me out with failed flat roof, but the roofer I found on their site was inadequate and continues to be listed.

Perhaps all you can do is check the reviews, check the associations, get a feel for the person and hope God is in your corner.