Controlling multiple electric heaters centrally

[Harry Bloomfield]

Whilst I appreciate that you are random strangers on the internet, you're also collectively electricians and heating installers and competent DIYers etc. there isn't a great deal of choice in electric only heating when no gas or no E7 is available. I'm not sure what else information there is to give you to help get some advice that I haven't already?

If there is some sort of roof area, your best for economy would be air source heating, and nowhere easier than on a top floor.

 

[danlightbulb]

If there is some sort of roof area, your best for economy would be air source heating, and nowhere easier than on a top floor.

Unlikely to be possible. 1. Building is grade II listed. 2. I doubt the freeholder would allow a heat pump to be installed on top of the pitched roof, how would you even get it up there and maintain it?

Buy one smart plug, one temperature sensor, and install Alexa on a tablet, or phone. You can set individual plugs/heaters to turn on, and off, at set times, turn on and off with temperature. What more do you want?

The problem with this is that EPC doesn't recognise it. The existing heater installation will only count as direct acting portable heaters, because they are on plugs, and stuff like Alexa thermostats or controls which rely on smartphone apps do not count in EPC assessment.

 

[ads1980]

Also just to note on those electric radiators I bought. You can get them with either a 3 pin plug on them or a hardwired option for the fused spur. So you can put them literally anywhere. They look nice too (I got the anthracite coloured ones). They come in different sizes but they’re not the cheapest to buy depending on how many you need and the sizes.

 

[danlightbulb]

Also just to note on those electric radiators I bought. You can get them with either a 3 pin plug on them or a hardwired option for the fused spur. So you can put them literally anywhere. They look nice too (I got the anthracite coloured ones). They come in different sizes but they’re not the cheapest to buy depending on how many you need and the sizes.

The prices are crazy. How is a portable electric panel or oil filled heater around £30-50 yet make it wall mounted and the price jumps to £300 each.

 

[ads1980]

The prices are crazy. How is a portable electric panel or oil filled heater around £30-50 yet make it wall mounted and the price jumps to £300 each.

It is quite a lot different to a panel or oil filled heater and more like a proper conventional radiator. They’re extremely heavy and made from thick steel. They stay hot for a long time after they have been turned off and retain the heat well. Totally different to the panel heaters or portable ones. But like you say, they’re not the cheapest but in my case, they’re already paying for themselves from the fact that they provide heat when I want it and they’re more efficient that the storage heaters I had before.

 

[endecotp]

Where can I go to to get an official answer though?

Go to a rental agency; they will have someone who does EPCs for them. Ask them for a recommendation.

 

[ericmark]

Unlikely to be possible. 1. Building is grade II listed. 2. I doubt the freeholder would allow a heat pump to be installed on top of the pitched roof, how would you even get it up there and maintain it?

And I #42 showed window mounted heat pumps. It can be done. The question is if it is worth it. To be frank until I did a google for "window mounted air conditioner" I did not know they existed.

There were so many which I did not realise even existed. I have a cheap AC

from Lidi I seem to remember, and it was always a problem working out how to get the hot air out of the house. In the end I made an adaptor so it could go up the chimney, my windows do not open in the style of shash window, so the units shown would not work. I note it calls it "10000btu 4 in 1 air conditioner, fan cooler, dehumidifier and heater silence Window Air Conditioner home wifi option" so it does heat as well. However not all models, and back in 1980 when I first came across the window AC, so ran the heat pump in reverse, and some had a simple element when switched to heating.

The problem is to know what to put into google to find the units.

As to EPC, if it has a heat pump, then it will likely show it as such, as to is only a 100% or 500% likely the inspector will not have a clue, he will see a heat pump, and will tick the box.

As to removable, the LED bulbs are clearly removable, why it includes items which are simply plugged in I don't know, seems daft, but the whole EPC seems daft.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

They stay hot for a long time after they have been turned off and retain the heat well.

Which logically suggests, they would also take a while to heat up, and you would be waiting for warmth, whilst they did.

 

[StephenStephen]

I would suggest it's worth just getting an EPC, rather than guessing about it, then look at what improvements to make.
My experience is that EPC surveyors vary in competence! So it's worth finding one who is (a) competent and (b) knows how to assess what's present to get the best rating possible.
I would also have a conversation with them about the effect of possible heating changes to the EPC rating.

 

[StephenStephen]

In terms of storage heating, I really can't see why you can't simply switch to a low cost night time rate (lots are available), install a couple of them, and set them to heat up at the low rate period.

 

[StephenStephen]

In terms of time controlling electric heaters, the heat is instant, so, by and large, I would think the best way to control them is to switch them on when you go in to the room, and switch them off when you go out. I'm not at all convinced that central or remote switching would lead to lower power usage or more comfort.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Unlikely to be possible. 1. Building is grade II listed. 2. I doubt the freeholder would allow a heat pump to be installed on top of the pitched roof, how would you even get it up there and maintain it?

The outdoor unit, need not be outside...

I've seen them loft mounted, using a wall/roof mounted fan(s), to move air through.

 

[danlightbulb]

In terms of storage heating, I really can't see why you can't simply switch to a low cost night time rate (lots are available), install a couple of them, and set them to heat up at the low rate period.

Because storage heaters don't count as storage heaters (for the EPC) if they aren't on a separate off peak switched consumer unit controlled directly by the meter. Just switching to an off peak tariff adjusts billing yes, but does not give you an off peak activated circuit in the property.

In terms of time controlling electric heaters, the heat is instant, so, by and large, I would think the best way to control them is to switch them on when you go in to the room, and switch them off when you go out. I'm not at all convinced that central or remote switching would lead to lower power usage or more comfort.

I agree, but again for the EPC we have to have compliant units, they don't count or are scored poorly if they don't have programmers/timers and thermostats on.

I agree with your suggestion to see an EPC surveyor, obviously we want a good one who can discuss this with us and get the best outcome. But all these invasive solutions - storage heaters, solar, heat pumps...they are highly unlikely to be feasible in an apartment especially one like this. Think of a standard modern apartment, say in a block on 4th floor, no terrace or balcony. Where's the heat pump going? Mount it on the outside of the building using a crane/cherry picker to access it? It just can't work for many buildings.

The outdoor unit, need not be outside...

I've seen them loft mounted, using a wall/roof mounted fan(s), to move air through.

Which would still require permission to modify the fabric of the building, whether that's putting an air intake through the roof tile, or through the exterior wall, or modifying the windows. We haven't asked, but I wouldn't expect that permission to be granted or it's likely someone would have already tried it.

 

[plugwash]

Mount it on the outside of the building using a crane/cherry picker to access it?

Thats pretty much what they do in hot countries (except they seem to rely on daredevil climbers rather than cherry pickers in many of them).