Air to Air Vs Air to Water Heatpumps. Now closing the gap.

[Highway Man]

The other problem with air to water heat pumps and retro fits into older properties is the sheer size of radiators that we had with it, they was huge so we took those out when we took the heat pump out and replaced them with smaller rads that a gas boiler could handle, thn once we had gone to the expense of all of this we fitted the air con heat pumps and never thought we would use them for heating purposes. Then we discovered how good they performed during the winter we sort of never switched the boiler on

 

[Highway Man]

Are they independent units, as in one per area, or have you have them ducted into each room ?

each is independant so that we can use whichever we want on either heat or cool.

 

[MNW67]

The other problem with air to water heat pumps and retro fits into older properties is the sheer size of radiators that we had with it, they was huge so we took those out when we took the heat pumpout and replaced them with smaller rads that a gas boiler could handle, thn once we had gone to the expense of all of this we fitted the air con heat pumps and never thought we would use them for heating purposes. Then we discovered how good they performed during the winter we sort of never switched the boiler on

Bathroom will be cold!!

 

[Highway Man]

Bathroom will be cold!!

no because the hot air moves to cold air so if we leave the door open to the bathroom it heats up, plus we have electric underfloor heating in the bathroom. It surprised us as we thought it would be as you say.

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

You need your meds looked at mate. Pmsl

A 2 bed terrace house with no solar, it’s going to cost an absolute fortune to keep the house warm.

It only works in the perfect situation.

Which scientific paper did you get your analysis from? I'm guessing the Daily Mail's comments section.

There's lots of rubbish stated about heat pumps. They work, very well, they're not a conspiracy theory!

You don't need masses of insulation - heat pumps are just a heat source. The cost of the heat is about the same as mains gas - the energy costs treble the price, but they're about 3 times more efficient so it all works out the same. It's likely that gas will rise in price as local supplies run out in the future.

Just as with mains gas, you can choose whether to spend more on insulation and get lower bills or not. The idea that heat pumps need newbuild superhomes is a myth, probably based on their cost and low power a decade or so ago. Ours outputs up to 10kW of heat, using up to about 3kW of electricity. In reality it's mostly throttled back, using 1-2kW or nothing at all once the place is warm enough.

We have an air-to-water system. All brand new, as we didn't have a heating system at all previously. Plumbed as four zones, with the heat moving around our work, living and sleeping rooms as we do. Really efficient, and works extremely well, even when it's snowing outside.

I did look at air-to-air. They're good, the big advantage is that they can also cool in the summer. But the lack of government subsidy made our minds up. Also we sat in a waiting room at the optician with one installed and both agreed that while they're not extremely noisy, the continuous drone would eventually get annoying. Radiators hum a bit, but they're much quieter. We live in the countryside, both work at home and really value the peace and quiet we have. But I totally understand why others would prefer them to radiators.

 

[Highway Man]

I did look at air-to-air. They're good, the big advantage is that they can also cool in the summer. But the lack of government subsidy made our minds up.

The installation cost is much lower on air to air systems that we thought even though there was no government funding for them, the money we would save between the two systems made our mind up. The existing air to water system that had been installed when we bought the house was very poor and was not performing as it should. We had quotes to sort it out but that cost was virtually the same as a new system so we took it out and went with air to air heat pumps. I think you have to get the right installer from the get go or they won't be as good as they can be.

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

For our hot water, the main bathroom and kitchen are supplied with the hot water cylinder that's part of the heat pump system and is located close to these rooms.

We also have another shower room that's about 20m away from the hot water cylinder. So if plumbed into that and you wanted to wash your hands in warm water or have a shower you'd need to run the tap for ages, then when you'd done you'd be leaving a load of warm water in the pipe through the loft to go cold.

So instead I fitted one of these next to this room...

Aquila | HYCO Manufacturing

The thermostatically controlled Aquila instantaneous water heater is suitable for hand washing at up to 2 basins or light dishwashing at a single sink.

www.hyco.co.uk

Which costs about 3x the price of a heatpump to make water hot, but it doesn't waste most of it running down a long pipe, so probably costs about the same and actually delivers hot water pretty much as soon as you turn the tap on.

It's a brilliant thing, I was actually thinking of having air-to-air for room heating and two of these to provide all the hot water, so no cylinder at all. But we ended up with what we have.

 

[Highway Man]

Now with the advantage of air to air being able to supply hot water via a cylinder they make a very attractive alternative. Hot water is the problem with heat pump systems, we looked at everything from an unvented hot water cylinder to instananeous water heaters under the two sinks. We decided because we are leaving the gas heating in place we might as well use the combi to supply our hot water needs.

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

The installation cost is much lower on air to air systems that we thought even though there was no government funding for them, the money we would save between the two systems made our mind up. The existing air to water system that had been installed when we bought the house was very poor and was not performing as it should. We had quotes to sort it out but that cost was virtually the same as a new system so we took it out and went with air to air heat pumps. I think you have to get the right installer from the get go or they won't be as good as they can be.

I found that, for us out in the country at least, I just couldn't find installers. Or at least one that wanted the job. I tried a couple of companies, both normally fit commercial systems. One turned up to have a look then ignored me, the other never called back at all.

I'd also be concerned about having all that gas in the pipes - I wouldn't be able to muck about with it, e.g. remove a rad when painting a room or add another if I wanted. With air-to-water, the system beyond the heat pump itself is pretty DIY-friendly.

Perfect if you're qualified to DIY it though, I'd do exactly the same.

You should set up an air-to-air business, there's a big opportunity there.

 

[Highway Man]

I found that, for us out in the country at least, I just couldn't find installers. Or at least one that wanted the job. I tried a couple of companies, both normally fit commercial systems. One turned up to have a look then ignored me, the other never called back at all.

I'd also be concerned about having all that gas in the pipes - I wouldn't be able to muck about with it, e.g. remove a rad when painting a room or add another if I wanted. With air-to-water, the system beyond the heat pump itself is pretty DIY-friendly.

Perfect if you're qualified to DIY it though, I'd do exactly the same.

You should set up an air-to-air business, there's a big opportunity there.

I would have expected with my looks and my physique that Daikin or Mitsubishi would have installed a system free of charge for me to advertise their systems for them, they would sell thousands on the back of me. So far I havent heard back.

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

We were measured up for a "Mitsubishi Heavy Industries" system, which apparently is a completely separate company to "Mitsubishi". Very confusing. I was imagining something made of cast iron, but they looked fine.

I wanted ceiling mounted units - we live in a bungalow with a completely disused loft. I was planning to install the units myself, then get the fitters to do just the plumbing. It would have been amazing, but government money and lack of interest from installers swung me towards getting bloody huge radiators instead.

There's a minor issue with reliably removing the condensate from each room unit. I assume you've taken care of all this elegantly. Also they need pretty regular disassembly, hoovering out and filters changing.

All in all, I'm happy with boring old radiators. But I do get the attraction of air-to-air systems.

 

[Highway Man]

We were measured up for a "Mitsubishi Heavy Industries" system, which apparently is a completely separate company to "Mitsubishi". Very confusing. I was imagining something made of cast iron, but they looked fine.

I wanted ceiling mounted units - we live in a bungalow with a completely disused loft. I was planning to install the units myself, then get the fitters to do just the plumbing. It would have been amazing, but government money and lack of interest from installers swung me towards getting bloody huge radiators instead.

There's a minor issue with reliably removing the condensate from each room unit. I assume you've taken care of all this elegantly. Also they need pretty regular disassembly, hoovering out and filters changing.

All in all, I'm happy with boring old radiators. But I do get the attraction of air-to-air systems.

we didnt need condensate pumps as the pipe runs use gravity, filters get a quick clean every few weeks, only takes a few mins. I clean the coils annualy,

 

[noseall]

I just start a fire on my rug keeps me nice and warm.

You could light a candle and get a greater benefit than some heat pumps.

 

[warey4life]

So now air to air systems are closing the gap to air to water systems by adding heat recovery to a water cylinder for hot water. Still cheaper than air to water systems and far superior. Mine is superb and saves me a fortune.

Have you got a relatively new and well insulated house?

 

[Highway Man]

Have you got a relatively new and well insulated house?

I have now yes