RTS turn off

[SUNRAY]

I've had a chat with my EDF contact, his first comment when I relayed FIF's post was not printable on here, he went on to explain the clockwork backed electric time switches but couldn't explain why it stopped recording and restarted. We concluded with the forever promise of meeting for a pint.

He called while I was out shopping and left a voicemail: apparently some RTSs have a battery backed electronic time switch in them. The early units were found to be 'competing' with the switching signal by adding a second 'on' operation which included an off pulse which upset some appliances (I thought about potential issues with a washing machine starting then losing power then starting again) so the later versions were designed to not be permanently active, additionally; not kicking in immediately allowed time for changes to be made to the plan and/or hardware.
He thinks he has relayed that correctly and ditto from me, we'll speak again tomorrow or so he promises.

I hope that makes sense and a possible explanation

 

[fixitflav]

Indeed. If it really is true (and one can but believe them) that some people's RTS-switched metering is still working roughly as it should, despite absence of the LW signal, I can but presume that, as you say, the RTS must contain a local mains-powered clock which, in the past was 'kept accurate' by the LW signal. If that is the case, then such RTSs will carry on working 'for ever' and in many cases the 'drift' may be so little/slow as to not become a significant issue for many years to come (by which time one imagines that nearly everyone will have {maybe will have been compelled to have} a 'smart' meter).

Even if that is the case, I don't see how it would explain my readings - no night usage for 3 months, then start again.

 

[SUNRAY]

Even if that is the case, I don't see how it would explain my readings - no night usage for 3 months, then start again.

Possibly this?:

I've had a chat with my EDF contact, his first comment when I relayed FIF's post was not printable on here, he went on to explain the clockwork backed electric time switches but couldn't explain why it stopped recording and restarted. We concluded with the forever promise of meeting for a pint.

He called while I was out shopping and left a voicemail: apparently some RTSs have a battery backed electronic time switch in them. The early units were found to be 'competing' with the switching signal by adding a second 'on' operation which included an off pulse which upset some appliances (I thought about potential issues with a washing machine starting then losing power then starting again) so the later versions were designed to not be permanently active, additionally; not kicking in immediately allowed time for changes to be made to the plan and/or hardware.
He thinks he has relayed that correctly and ditto from me, we'll speak again tomorrow or so he promises.

I hope that makes sense and a possible explanation

 

[JohnW2]

Even if that is the case, I don't see how it would explain my readings - no night usage for 3 months, then start again.

I agree. Sunray has offered a possible explanation for a period of 'non-operation' (no default to local internal clock), which sounds conceptually credible. However, whilst that might explain a non-operational period of minutes, maybe even an hour or three, 3 months would seem to make absolutely no sense!

 

[SUNRAY]

I agree. Sunray has offered a possible explanation for a period of 'non-operation' (no default to local internal clock), which sounds conceptually credible. However, whilst that might explain a non-operational period of minutes, maybe even an hour or three, 3 months would seem to make absolutely no sense!

I hope to speak to him tomorrow to see if he has any more info, his voicemail implied days rather than hours in order to be able to shut the service down if required.
I can't add anything further until I speak to him again

 

[fixitflav]

Possibly this?:

I read that, nothing personal in not replying before! I suppose that could be it but it seems unlikely. If it's a battery it must be a good one, even if the mains keeps it charged. The RTS has probably been there since the house was built in 1963, I've been here over 27 tears. A couple of pics of the RTS attached. Be interesting to hear what your mate has to say.
The night reading has increased since the last one, so the RTS is still working.

I've had another bill, and been charged for day and electric at the appropriate rates (as I expected). No comments about unexpected night usage.

 

[AndyPRK]

No one banned night usage. So billing ppl won’t notice

 

[SUNRAY]

I read that, nothing personal in not replying before! I suppose that could be it but it seems unlikely. If it's a battery it must be a good one, even if the mains keeps it charged. The RTS has probably been there since the house was built in 1963, I've been here over 27 tears. A couple of pics of the RTS attached. Be interesting to hear what your mate has to say.
The night reading has increased since the last one, so the RTS is still working.

I've had another bill, and been charged for day and electric at the appropriate rates (as I expected). No comments about unexpected night usage.

There are still loads of mechanical time switches still in service running off peak systems, as Andy says accounts won't know who should still have a working E7 plan

 

[fixitflav]

Andy says accounts won't know who should still have a working E7 plan

That's right, the figures on the bill were as I expected.

 

[fixitflav]

There are still loads of mechanical time switches still in service running off peak systems

Using RTS for switchover?

 

[SUNRAY]

Using RTS for switchover?

Not all E7 systems use RTS, some are purely controlled by a mechanical time switch, such as this one

 

[JohnW2]

Not all E7 systems use RTS, some are purely controlled by a mechanical time switch, such as this one

Indeed - such a system is exactly what I inherited ~40 years ago but within a few years that was changed to a system in which the E7 register switching was controlled by an internal electronic clock in a ('dumb'but) electronic meter - and that's how it has ben ever since, up to and including the present day.

I see no reason why default to a back-up local clock (if there is one) in an RTS (which can no longer get a LW signal) should be 'any worse' than what I have been 'enjoying' from the local clock in my ('dumb' but) electronic meter for the past 30+ years.

 

[ericmark]

I see no reason why default to a back-up local clock (if there is one) in an RTS (which can no longer get a LW signal) should be 'any worse' than what I have been 'enjoying' from the local clock in my ('dumb' but) electronic meter for the past 30+ years.

I see no problem with a back-up battery to cover short power cuts, in any time clock system, where the clock can be corrected by the meter reader. When using UTC all year around. When using a twice daily rate change.

Neither can I see a problem with one meter for import and one for export again read by a meter reader.

The problem is with dynamic tariffs.

But so many now have meters which can be read remotely, that the cost per meter to have a meter reader has gone up month by month, unless those meters are in a block, as when the tele-reading will not work.

Around 20 years ago I had an internet connected CT on the meter tails, and Scottish power used that reading, then corrected once a year, and it was not far out, so we did not have £100s over or under payment it was within £10.

Today we have a smart meter, they will not pay export without one, and I am £288.47 in credit, so the smart meter is not as good as the old CT coil. OK, idea is pay more than using in summer, and less than using in Winter, but annual bill is around £200, so well out.

But I am surprised not that the RTS is still working, but that it stopped in the first place, as one would think there would have been some back-up in case the LW signal did not get through.

So my guess was there was a final signal from the LW transmitter to tell the meter to stay in day mode, and some short power cut has caused that command to be lost. So it has returned to default mode.

But the other question has to be, is why the supplier has not changed the meter? They were given something like two extra years to sort it out, so there should not have been any teleswitches left, they should have been replaced with either simple clocks or smart meters.

So how come this one was missed out?

 

[morqthana]

Not all E7 systems use RTS, some are purely controlled by a mechanical time switch, such as this oneView attachment 419376

Is this Blu-Tack?

 

[morqthana]

I am £288.47 in credit, so the smart meter is not as good as the old CT coil.

It's much better from the suppliers' POV.

Octopus Energy is the UK's largest supplier of energy, with 14 million customer accounts in 8 million households as of 2026

.

14 million accounts £288 in credit is over £4bn they've got to invest.