Fitting an isolator between meter and consumer unit.

[JohnW2]

Unless multiple panels over multiple plugs are used, the DIYer has no limits

The same goes for multiple fan heaters, doesn't it? As I said before there is obviously a true 'safe limit' in terms of the wiring and OPD of the circuit involved, but that is about 7,600 W for a 32A circuit. ...but I don't think you'll find anything about that in the Instructions which come with fan heaters

 

[denso13]

No, as I said, it means that I don't see the point in introducing new rules whose main purpose is to discourage peoplefro ignoring/disobeying some other rule(s) (which I thiught was what you were suggesting) - since a person 'not too concerned about obeying rules' will presumably disobey both, if necessary ?

What do think should have happened, or should happen now, with regards to the introduction of DIY plug in solar?

which I thiught was what you were suggesting

No, if that is what you took from it then I didn't intend that.

 

[denso13]

The same goes for multiple fan heaters, doesn't it?

It goes for anything you can think of, if rules are broken.

 

[denso13]

...which takes me back to the question I asked which started all this. If there is a perceived 'safety reason' for the 800 W limit,what ISthat 'safety reason' ?

Just had a quick glance at the consultation and some who responded says this was too low, some thought about right, and some thought it was unsafe whatever the limit was set at. The answer was that, following extensive testing of different UK set ups it was deemed that 800w was a safe point as per some other European countries.

Some also wanted batteries as a option but the answer was that it was an unnecessary complication at this point, but the roll out would be monitored and things might be revisited once it was proved to be safe and used widely.

That maybe doesn't answer the "why 800w specifically" question, but it looks like it could be a starting point if "all goes well".

 

[morqthana]

I don't think so. You don't need rules for anything until it becomes a "thing" that needs rules. Surely?

We didn't need the rules before we had the rules because until we had the rules plug-in solar was not a practical reality worth bothering with, but once we introduced the rules to make it a practical reality we needed the rules to regulate it?

 

[denso13]

We didn't need the rules before we had the rules because until we had the rules plug-in solar was not a practical reality worth bothering with, but once we introduced the rules to make it a practical reality we needed the rules to regulate it?

Precisely...

 

[pete01]

For the love of god get the isolator fitted....

 

[JohnW2]

Just had a quick glance at the consultation and some who responded says this was too low, some thought about right, and some thought it was unsafe whatever the limit was set at.

Did none, like me, question whether a limit (of any magnitude) was actually needed?

I can understand some having the view of the final group you mention ('unsafe'', whatever the 'limit' was) but, for the rest, I still don't really understand why they think that some aspects are 'safe' at low powers but not at high powers!

 

[morqthana]

Energy available to start a fire?

 

[JohnW2]

Energy available to start a fire?

I imagine that, in appropriate circumstances, tiny amounts of energy can start fires and large amounts of energy don't start fires, so I rather doubt that there's a particularly useful causal relationship to be found there?

 

[pcaouolte]

When people started talking about plug-in solar I wondered if I could wall mount a few of them above my flat roof garage on a south facing wall. I imagined that I might install a few outdoor sockets to plug them into and have a row of them perhaps 20 feet long. The advantage over roof mounted solar would be the ability to take them with me if/when I move house.

All this talk of rules and limits of one panel per house/circuit (or something) has completely put me off the idea.

 

[denso13]

Did none, like me, question whether a limit (of any magnitude) was actually needed?

No explanation. This might explain why they chose what they did.

"The effort began in 2017, when the German certification body Verband der Elektrotechnik (VDE) released the testing standard VDE V 0100-551-1. This standard addressed the safety requirements and integration of plug-in PV systems, such as balcony solar, into low-voltage electrical installations. In 2018, VDE released VDE AR N 4105, which further outlined the technical requirements for connecting power-generating devices. This regulation established a 600 W limit for connection without an electrician’s signature, and was based on a 2016 Fraunhofer report showing that 600 W of back feed was safe even in worst-case scenarios. The limit was later raised to 800 W to align with the lower limit of regulation under the European Network Code. Today, Germans can purchase, register, and plug in up to 800 W of balcony solar."

"The previously mentioned Fraunhofer study suggests that overloading a circuit by 2.6 A is acceptable, setting a 600 W limit for European 230 V plug-in DERs. German experts argue that an 800 W limit is still acceptable on a 16 A residential circuit. Here, the rare worst-case scenario of a 3.5 A (i.e., 20%) overload might cause slightly faster wire degradation but would never start a fire."

https://www.mdpi.com/1996-1073/18/8/2132

 

[SUNRAY]

Flexible double insulated singles are available, including rubber which is more flexible than tri-rated. I cleared some stock out quite recently.

I knew I couldn't possibly have cleared it all out

 

[JohnW2]

I knew I couldn't possibly have cleared it all out

I'm very glad that I'm not the man who has to 'count the strands' in that

 

[SUNRAY]

I'm very glad that I'm not the man who has to 'count the strands' in that

I'm sure it's been done