I don't think there is any mix-up. To quote Mr Googe ...I imagine you have mixed that one up
Instructions, should they be required, what should they say, etc.
- Thread starter ericmark
- Start date
Yes indeed - In my enthusiasm I left caps lock on too - sorryI imagine you have mixed that one up
- Joined
- 27 Apr 2008
- Messages
- 10,446
- Reaction score
- 1,250
- Country
Whilst I Cannot remember what it was that told me, I do seem to remember something saying that yes instructions must be provided for all electrical goods sold within Europe (this was some years back).
Even simple connection instructions, must be protected by an MCB/RCD etc. type info.
However, being in electrical manufacturing, many firms do not do this when selling to industrial customers (because they just know how to connect.), it's more to domestic customers who are considered as thick as piggpoo.
Hence when you buy a dishwasher it comes with a 1000 page instruction manual in all languages from here to outer space
Even simple connection instructions, must be protected by an MCB/RCD etc. type info.
However, being in electrical manufacturing, many firms do not do this when selling to industrial customers (because they just know how to connect.), it's more to domestic customers who are considered as thick as piggpoo.
Hence when you buy a dishwasher it comes with a 1000 page instruction manual in all languages from here to outer space
- Joined
- 27 Jan 2008
- Messages
- 29,283
- Reaction score
- 3,597
- Location
- Llanfair Caereinion, Nr Welshpool
- Country
I remember as school, being told to write out instructions for a robot to make a cup of tea.
The point of the exercise was to point out how much we take for granted.
So I was looking at instructions for plug-in solar panels, and how we could impart the required information.
One, we can't set out instructions for someone breaking the law, so we can assume all is legal to start with.
So an outside socket here in Wales comes under part P, so has to be inspected and either a completion or compliance certificate raised, the plug has to be moulded onto the lead so no need for instructions on how to fit a plug, the main aim of plug in solar panels is to allow the rental sector to have solar, so although owner occupiers can also fit them, the drilling of holes for cables, and how to supply an outside socket in the main is not required, as the sector they are aimed at can only use what is fitted by the landlord.
So question one, does the tenant need to work out how a socket is supplied? OK looking at the EICR there may be some code 3 comments which could state things like outside socket is from the lighting circuit, but in the main, the tenant has no need to know how a socket is supplied. Other than in rough areas how to isolate it to stop others using it.
I would not expect the instructions for a kitchen island to include distances required for wheelchair access. And I would not expect a washing machine to say what size RCD, MCB, RCBO, or fuse should supply its socket.
OK, a freezer or fridge/freezer may say do not use extension leads, mainly do to volt drop, I know some boilers say a RCD must be used, but they are not portable, so same with immersion heater, or cooker.
So should a wallmart plug say don't use where it can be damaged with for example a well chair user, I would say not, that should be down to common sense.
I can see how a drill, hedge cutter, and the like may say don't use in the rain. But in the main, any plug in item, any restrictions stop at the socket, OK we may find a loft socket with a 3 amp max sticker on it, but in the main, if there is a socket we can use it.
This one is clearly marked fed via EPS, so if items should not be plugged into a UPS, or EPS supply, then yes the instructions should say so.
As to on the packaging saying not suitable for use outside, or not suitable for non RCD protected supplies etc, I have only seen the latter with installed items. So this
Is fair enough, taken from a tumble driers instructions, but in the main the 13 amp plug can be put into nearly all 13 amp sockets, and with plug in solar one is hardly going to leave ones window open in order to plug it in, so only option is an outside socket, and to have a warning on the box, so one can see before buying about unidirectional RCD, using fuses rather than a MCB or RCBO would just go over the head of most tenants, if they have a handy outdoor socket, why not use it for a solar panel.
But it does mean with an EICR we much ensure any labels required to say a socket is not suitable for EV charging, or solar panels must be in place.
The point of the exercise was to point out how much we take for granted.
So I was looking at instructions for plug-in solar panels, and how we could impart the required information.
One, we can't set out instructions for someone breaking the law, so we can assume all is legal to start with.
So an outside socket here in Wales comes under part P, so has to be inspected and either a completion or compliance certificate raised, the plug has to be moulded onto the lead so no need for instructions on how to fit a plug, the main aim of plug in solar panels is to allow the rental sector to have solar, so although owner occupiers can also fit them, the drilling of holes for cables, and how to supply an outside socket in the main is not required, as the sector they are aimed at can only use what is fitted by the landlord.
So question one, does the tenant need to work out how a socket is supplied? OK looking at the EICR there may be some code 3 comments which could state things like outside socket is from the lighting circuit, but in the main, the tenant has no need to know how a socket is supplied. Other than in rough areas how to isolate it to stop others using it.
I would not expect the instructions for a kitchen island to include distances required for wheelchair access. And I would not expect a washing machine to say what size RCD, MCB, RCBO, or fuse should supply its socket.
OK, a freezer or fridge/freezer may say do not use extension leads, mainly do to volt drop, I know some boilers say a RCD must be used, but they are not portable, so same with immersion heater, or cooker.
So should a wallmart plug say don't use where it can be damaged with for example a well chair user, I would say not, that should be down to common sense.
I can see how a drill, hedge cutter, and the like may say don't use in the rain. But in the main, any plug in item, any restrictions stop at the socket, OK we may find a loft socket with a 3 amp max sticker on it, but in the main, if there is a socket we can use it.
This one is clearly marked fed via EPS, so if items should not be plugged into a UPS, or EPS supply, then yes the instructions should say so.As to on the packaging saying not suitable for use outside, or not suitable for non RCD protected supplies etc, I have only seen the latter with installed items. So this
Is fair enough, taken from a tumble driers instructions, but in the main the 13 amp plug can be put into nearly all 13 amp sockets, and with plug in solar one is hardly going to leave ones window open in order to plug it in, so only option is an outside socket, and to have a warning on the box, so one can see before buying about unidirectional RCD, using fuses rather than a MCB or RCBO would just go over the head of most tenants, if they have a handy outdoor socket, why not use it for a solar panel.
But it does mean with an EICR we much ensure any labels required to say a socket is not suitable for EV charging, or solar panels must be in place.
- Joined
- 17 Mar 2011
- Messages
- 814
- Reaction score
- 219
- Country
The towns christmas lighting was controlled by din rail timers at various points
The boss told me told me to set the timers like it was nothing
I got up the ladder to the first one and realised I hadn’t a clue how to set it . Eventually got a manual and figured it out.
Another time I had to show a difficult customer how to set a 3 channel timer . I had my homework done otherwise I hadn’t a hope
- Joined
- 5 Nov 2024
- Messages
- 5,507
- Reaction score
- 2,588
- Country
I had install a dual fuel gas cooker today. The instructions are clear as mud. It comes pre-wired with a 13A plug, but states a minimum fuse of 16A - 25A. I'm guessing that is for being hard wired, but why muddy the waters?
- Joined
- 17 Mar 2011
- Messages
- 814
- Reaction score
- 219
- Country
Presumably that refers to circuit protection ?
Not sure why they need to specify anything on a socket circuit
- Joined
- 5 Nov 2024
- Messages
- 5,507
- Reaction score
- 2,588
- Country
Could be. Here is what I have had back via WhatsApp messaging with them. I also meant to provide a link above, but here it is: Ferre
Attachments
- Joined
- 17 Mar 2011
- Messages
- 814
- Reaction score
- 219
- Country
It's not for being"hard wired" as its supplied with a plug so should be fused at 13 amp
- Joined
- 27 Jan 2008
- Messages
- 29,283
- Reaction score
- 3,597
- Location
- Llanfair Caereinion, Nr Welshpool
- Country
I remember a multi-fuel boiler, it was German reparations after first world war, would work on coke ovens gas, blast furnace gas, oil or coal, although it was hardly ever used with coal. And it powered a 12 MW generator which at the time we thought was big, I have since worked on 750 MW so really quite small.
But I just wonder what the duel fuels are? North Sea gas and Calor gas? I was trying to work out how one could switch between electric and gas, and could not really see how it could be done.
Gas and electric seems worlds apart. I suppose it allows it to be used when the electric supply is not good enough?
Or is the dual fuel coke and gas, or something like that. Or is it simply the gas is controlled by electric.
Or is it just the oven, I have seen a gas oven with a microwave built in. Many years ago, around 1981.
We have only used gas in a caravan, which put us off gas cookers for life, super slow, hard to control, and made the whole caravan like an oven. Give me an induction hob and electric oven any days, more controllable and safer.
But I just wonder what the duel fuels are? North Sea gas and Calor gas? I was trying to work out how one could switch between electric and gas, and could not really see how it could be done.
Gas and electric seems worlds apart. I suppose it allows it to be used when the electric supply is not good enough?
Or is the dual fuel coke and gas, or something like that. Or is it simply the gas is controlled by electric.
Or is it just the oven, I have seen a gas oven with a microwave built in. Many years ago, around 1981.
We have only used gas in a caravan, which put us off gas cookers for life, super slow, hard to control, and made the whole caravan like an oven. Give me an induction hob and electric oven any days, more controllable and safer.
- Joined
- 17 Mar 2011
- Messages
- 814
- Reaction score
- 219
- Country
They're referring to the circuit protection but it's pretty much irrelevant on a socket circuit all being well
Gas hob electric oven?
- Joined
- 5 Nov 2024
- Messages
- 5,507
- Reaction score
- 2,588
- Country
Still not clearly written though. I presumed as much, customer wanted it checking for belt and braces, so a spark is attending
- Joined
- 5 Nov 2024
- Messages
- 5,507
- Reaction score
- 2,588
- Country
Exactly this
DIYnot Local
Staff member
If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.
Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.
Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local
