Washing machine energy usage.

Simple maths, completely incorrect conclusions. I give up as I'm at risk of falling for your trolling.
Oh dear, the problem as I see it, if after this you still can't grasp it, how many other people don't understand, what I have to remember not everyone has had a University education, so some will always be conned. Which I suppose is what the government relies on with adverts for smart meters showing after installing you can switch lights on/off by clapping hands, I was going to say who do they think they are kidding, now I know.
 
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Simple maths, completely incorrect conclusions. I give up as I'm at risk of falling for your trolling.
Agreed, it makes no difference to the physics whether anybody thinks time comes into it or not. Joule = N*m, watt = joule/second. Factors of say 1000 or 3600 can be applied to make the numbers more convenient, but that doesn't change the basics.
 
Time does come into it. If you are doing work at a certain rate (ie Power) for example in joules per second, the longer you continue the more work you will do.

A kW is a rate of doing work or a power of one thousand joules per second. If you do that for an hour the total energy is 3600 seconds x 1000 Joules per second.

The seconds cancel out and you are left with 3,600,000 Joules which is equivalent to 1 kWh.
 
Energy when I was at school was two types, dynamic and potential, but that was 60 years ago. It can't be made or destroyed (not quite true, but OK for this discussion) but can be converted.

Out of curiosity what are the exceptions you refer to? Never heard of an exception to this law of physics.
 
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I seem to remember quantum physics or as @Harry Bloomfield says Nuclear. If I had not admitted there was an exception some one would have picked be up on it.

However whole thing is why measure what a washing machine uses, what gain is there, once you buy a washing machine your going to use that model until it fails, there are some specials with hot fill, mainly sold for use on boats, where you have loads of hot water, heated by the engine, so costs nothing, but EU rules on energy saving has resulted in the hot fill washing machine disappearing, so all we have is a selection of problems.

In the main idea is we start the wash cold and slowly warm up, so anything like egg white is washed off before water warms up, another reason for no hot fill, but as well as a selection of programs we also have load detection which means even with same problem energy used will vary wash to wash.

I am sure every washing machine washes for longer than required, but last thing we want to do is have to careful inspect each article washed to see if it needs re-washing.

So again why measure how much it uses, we need cloths washed and does not really matter if it uses 0.5 kWh or 1 kWh we will still wash them.
 
but EU rules on energy saving has resulted in the hot fill washing machine disappearing

More nonsense.

Cold-fill-only machines has nothing to do with EU rules and everything to do with cost cutting on the part of manufacturers. Whilst few in number they are still available - Ebac being a good example and they've got a page with more information on it if you want to learn more.
 
The EU rules may have not directly stopped hot fill, but the energy rating labels have resulted in problems complying when having hot fill.

The same with fridge/freezer, the EU did not stop the manufacturer of fridge/freezers where the freezer was larger than the fridge, but the way the energy ratings worked resulted in the smaller the freezer is the easier it is to comply, so finding one better than 50/50 is rare now.

With freezers the use of energy meters does help, the manufacturer says what annual use should be, OK variables due to how well loaded and how often door opened, but if they say 365 kWh/annum you can test if 1 kWh per day, and if 1.5 kWh you can assume some thing is wrong.

I did it with mothers freezer, it used 60 watt when running, and in 24 hours used 1440 watt/hours, it clearly was not switching off, so alerted me to fact there was a fault, could be loss of refrigerant or going too cold, it turned out faulty thermostat and was too cold, which explained why she was complaining ready meals were not hot enough. The idea was meals were taken from fridge/freezer and the freezer on top was back up supply, so should not have being using ready meals direct from freezer, but she would ask carers to heat the meals and they would some times take them out of top freezer not the fridge/freezer.

So there are some things where measuring the energy uses helps, even if to just make one aware of cost, for example for a TV or TV box to record programs with correct time even if program delayed of brought forward the EPG needs to be active and in turn if using satellite the LNB must be powered, so the unit uses maybe 10 watt on stand-by. But if using pure time and no correction if programs times moved, the power used can't be measured with a plug in energy meter.

Not sure if still true as Sky Q uses internet, so may not keep LNB active any more, but old Sky+ used around 10 watt on stand-by to keep LNB powered. So much for 1 watt limit.
 
More nonsense.

Cold-fill-only machines has nothing to do with EU rules and everything to do with cost cutting on the part of manufacturers. Whilst few in number they are still available - Ebac being a good example and they've got a page with more information on it if you want to learn more.

It will reduce cost of manufacture, but there is also the fact that modern washers are much more economical temperature and hot water wise. By the time the hot water has fired up the combi and got the hot water to the machine through the pipes, it probably needs heating anyway, so why not just heat from cold. I can accept that with very large machines, needing lots of hot water, it might be worth having hot fill.
 
It will reduce cost of manufacture, but there is also the fact that modern washers are much more economical temperature and hot water wise. By the time the hot water has fired up the combi and got the hot water to the machine through the pipes, it probably needs heating anyway, so why not just heat from cold. I can accept that with very large machines, needing lots of hot water, it might be worth having hot fill.

That might be true in some cases but in many (eg combis with stored water, or stored hot water systems in general) it is a seemingly common misconception as the pipework only contains a fraction of the water required for a typical wash. Ebac suggest it is in the order of 1.3L out of typical 20L fill for a 10m pipe run.

My point really though was it has absolutely nothing to do with EU rules.
 
I seem to remember quantum physics or as @Harry Bloomfield says Nuclear. If I had not admitted there was an exception some one would have picked be up on it.
It's a common misconception that nuclear reactions convert mass to energy. Chemical reactions do the same, but the mass difference is too small to measure. Eg chemical reaction releasing 10MJ/kg of total reactants, mass loss = 10^7/c^2 ~ 10^7/10^17 = 10^-10 kg/kg = 10^-4 mg/kg - undetectable.
But in a nuclear reaction, say combining hydrogen with tritium to make helium (I know that doesn't work directly) the mass change is 0.007 kg/kg, measurable, and a great deal of energy is released.
 

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