There is no better time to learn!
Help with kitchen rewire and heating costs estimate pls
- Thread starter Rojomateus
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There is no better time to learn!
As a general statement, that's obviously true, and undoubtedly applies to the likes of you and myself, but I don't need to tell you that there is a very substantial proportion of the population who would not have the ability and/or inclination/desire to 'learn' how to do electrical/plumbing/building/whatever work. Indeed, were that not the case, an awful lot of tradespeople would be struggling to find work
Then why pose a question on a DIY website?
I suppose that's reasonable enough question, but no matter what the answer, the OP's original question was:
... which certainly suggests that the OP is, for whatever reason, not in any way considering doing the electrical work himself.
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Hi, just for clarification as the OP i do many things myself, I’m a 62 yr old woman and I have (on my own) removed the former kitchen including tiles on wall and floor and removed the kitchen ceiling. Removed wall under 2 windows for fitting of French doors one of these was in the kitchen. (Did not fit these myself as all doors and windows in home changed.) I took all removed, kitchen and associated rubble to my local recycling centre in the boot of my car! As a result of my kitchen change. the sink (as in most homes formerly under the sink) is moving to the middle of a party wall and required floor dug up for new plumbing and At the same time (on advice of plumber when I asked about moving hot water tank upstairs) I am having a pressurised system fitted. As there is electrical work required for this and various other electrical work included in the kitchen as detailed in my question I decided it best to get a professional in to do this work… partly to save time and assist the plumber and also as I will be fitting the kitchen myself and to give me a bit of a breather before I start that. Seems likely I will also need the CU upgraded as well. Also due some minor surgery so someone else can get on with things while I am laid up for a couple of weeks. Both plumbing and electrical works on this occasion I decided were just a “little” beyond my DIY capabilities. I asked my original question on here because usually in the forums there are qualified trades people who offer advice and therefore could potentially answer my question. Due to doing a number of DIY tasks myself… and reading endlessly on how things are done my “gut” works quite well on knowing how long a task might take and rough costs of materials. However I also realise that sometimes jobs are more difficult and take longer than I might expect… so seeking a bit of guidance as to quotes in case I was off the mark. Plus, when you do things yourself a lot you lose touch with what professionals are currently charging..
I have tackled many electrical jobs before and will, around the home be adding some extra sockets, changing singles to doubles and I do change out light fittings etc. Thanks to all who took time to answer and for the discussions. I will no doubt have many other DIY queries to come and post on the forum as I continue to try and renovate my home and save some cash, and get much satisfaction by doing it myself…
I have tackled many electrical jobs before and will, around the home be adding some extra sockets, changing singles to doubles and I do change out light fittings etc. Thanks to all who took time to answer and for the discussions. I will no doubt have many other DIY queries to come and post on the forum as I continue to try and renovate my home and save some cash, and get much satisfaction by doing it myself…
Yup , that very thing or "I want a COMPETATIVE QUOTE!" is, to my mind a dead give away.
My estimated price for the job has always been exactly that "My price for the job to the standards I am not prepared to lower and I have never tried to deliberately be cheaper or dearer than anyone else.
My price for my job to my standards or a different price for a different job or they can get someone else to do it - I strive to make the job fair to me and fair to the customer.
Obviously, for myself, I do watch the pennies but that means I consider best value or good value and not cheapest price.
Example - car tyres, my car is second hand, I had it a few years, probably not many years life left in it, I did not get the cheapest tyres nor the dearest tyres but I only decided upon what I thought were adeqate (probably) and perhaps a plus but never a minus.
I kknow lots of people who always goes for the cheapest (and a few who always goes for the dearest) but I attempt to get best value according to the situation.
Spot on there , John, but Flameport was right to comment on what I had written. It was one "Supposedly Scientific Approach" if one has nothing else to judge from, no doubt there are many more.
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I want someone to repair my gutters, found one firm quote £3k, and to my mind that is silly. But I made an error with a roof leak, and the first builders simply did not stop the leak, I had gone for too low of a quote to get a reasonable job.
I consider these find a tradesman firms, are basic an advertisement for people short of work, and if short of work, most likely reason is they are no good.
So next is the Pub, often you will get someone recommended there, and also social media. In the main I find tradesmen from the heritage railways where I volunteer, they have used local tradesmen for years, and have already sorted the wheat from the chaff. So they can normally find me someone to do the work.
What I do find, is getting someone to do work I have done all my life goes against the grain, but I have to accept at 75 although the youngest in the group of volunteers, they call me the apprentice, I have reached a point where I can't do jobs any more, we always go around in pairs, so we can help each other up.
But I seem to lose the help. Had a pair of gardeners, £100 for half a day, did a great job, well he did, his wife was good at smoking vapes, but his ideas to transform my garden made up for that. Then he had a heart attack, not dead, but can't work any more, so I was left with half completed work. This is always a problem with a sole trader (well technically two) if anything happens, you can be left with uncompleted work. So the handy man be he a plumber, electrician or central heating, small jobs great, long jobs will they complete it?
My son, years ago got divorced, he could no longer work as a sole trader, as no one to answer the phone etc. And the house had to be sold, so he ended up with no fixed abode, living on a narrow boat, so the outstanding jobs were completed, and he went cards in, the condition of employment was no foreigners, he had one job where they were not ready for him to complete, and he also lost contact with them, as they were not living at the house, and by time he got in touch again, they were slatting him off, as they said he had left the house with no earth, but hardly his fault, DNO said they were supplying a TN-C-S supply, and did give a TT supply. But the point is, a sole trader with the best will in the world can leave you high and dry.
But people basically pay a sole trader less than they would pay a large firm. So is it worth taking a chance? I do not like dealing with anyone who only has a mobile phone number, I want to know where they are trading from, and if local or not. Someone local can pop in to sort a small fault, someone with a 150-mile round trip, is not going to want to return for snagging.
I consider these find a tradesman firms, are basic an advertisement for people short of work, and if short of work, most likely reason is they are no good.
So next is the Pub, often you will get someone recommended there, and also social media. In the main I find tradesmen from the heritage railways where I volunteer, they have used local tradesmen for years, and have already sorted the wheat from the chaff. So they can normally find me someone to do the work.
What I do find, is getting someone to do work I have done all my life goes against the grain, but I have to accept at 75 although the youngest in the group of volunteers, they call me the apprentice, I have reached a point where I can't do jobs any more, we always go around in pairs, so we can help each other up.
But I seem to lose the help. Had a pair of gardeners, £100 for half a day, did a great job, well he did, his wife was good at smoking vapes, but his ideas to transform my garden made up for that. Then he had a heart attack, not dead, but can't work any more, so I was left with half completed work. This is always a problem with a sole trader (well technically two) if anything happens, you can be left with uncompleted work. So the handy man be he a plumber, electrician or central heating, small jobs great, long jobs will they complete it?
My son, years ago got divorced, he could no longer work as a sole trader, as no one to answer the phone etc. And the house had to be sold, so he ended up with no fixed abode, living on a narrow boat, so the outstanding jobs were completed, and he went cards in, the condition of employment was no foreigners, he had one job where they were not ready for him to complete, and he also lost contact with them, as they were not living at the house, and by time he got in touch again, they were slatting him off, as they said he had left the house with no earth, but hardly his fault, DNO said they were supplying a TN-C-S supply, and did give a TT supply. But the point is, a sole trader with the best will in the world can leave you high and dry.
But people basically pay a sole trader less than they would pay a large firm. So is it worth taking a chance? I do not like dealing with anyone who only has a mobile phone number, I want to know where they are trading from, and if local or not. Someone local can pop in to sort a small fault, someone with a 150-mile round trip, is not going to want to return for snagging.
Oh, I see them as much worse than that - they are inhabited by absolute untrustworthy, chancers, often as not, with no skills whatsoever. The problem with the UK, is that absolutely anyone can call themselves a skilled, builder, joiner, plumber, heating engineer, mechanic, or electrician, with no proof of any skills at all. The schemes we do have, are simply based on ability to pay, rather than any proof of skill, or ability.
I only have one trade, on speed dial, and he is a local, reliable, and trustworthy roofer. Heights, I cannot tackle.
As I've said, I fear that the average member of the general public does not really have any particularly good options as to how to 'judge' (select tradespersons).
Most of us tend to suggest that 'personal recommendation' is the best approach but, as I've often said, even that is of very limited value, since most of those giving the recommendations are only in a position to judge things (other than price) like tidiness, punctuality, pleasantness/politeness (and, of course, the visible appearance of work undertaken) but cannot really judge whether the work was undertaken competently, or even necessarily safely.
If, by whatever process, one comes to find a tradesperson whom, over a period of time, one has come to believe is 'very good', then one can sometimes 'spin off' from him/her to others - e.g. if the trusted person can tell you that "I used to work with him/her" or "he/she was my apprentice" etc. and that "they were great".
Kind Regards, John
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I agree, but did not like to say it. If I see they are with one of those firms I keep clear of them.
I do wonder, the wiring for my central heating was a complete mess, why the installer put his sticker on the boiler I don't know, he is the last person I would use.
This is where the heritage railway helps, the work is monitored by tradesmen, we simply don't have enough tradesmen to do it all in house.
Before I moved, I had been in collage with tradesmen, and knew who were good, and who to keep clear of. But moving 50 miles away the 100-mile round trip means I have lost that option. And also looking at different skills, in North Wales I had one tree I could not sort out my self. Here in Mid-Wales I have around 20 trees in the garden, so knowing a good tree surgeon is important.
But at least I don't need to buy charcoal.
I found heating to be a problem, this is the fourth house, OK one used hot air, so third to use water, plus sisters, and sons etc. I thought I knew what I was doing, this worked before, so do the same again, it was not that simple, and I started to realise why heating and ventilation was a University course. Not the run-of-the-mill collage course.
Bad bit was once I got it wrong, it seemed obvious why it didn't work, I had considered heating time, but had not even thought about how quick to cool, and I put the main thermostat in the slowest room to cool.
Today near enough, and that is the point, to get perfect costs too much, so we use near enough engineering. If we for 90% of the time, we use 3 of the 12 rooms in the house, then why heat the other 9 to same temperature? I don't want other rooms freezing cold, but keeping them at 21°C +/- 1.5°C is not required and expensive. Walking in/out of a kitchen at 17°C is not a problem.
Indeed. My house being far to big for us now, probably 75% of the rooms are almost never heated significantly (unless, very occasionally {like at Christmas!}, we have a lot of 'visitors'). I have stats/TRVs which keep the temps in those places above about 5 degrees, but that's usually all. Like you, there are normally only 3 or 4 rooms that are regularly heated to a 'comfortable' temp.
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A standard kitchen electrical installation typically costs between £1,100 and £1,400 excluding VAT. Happy to break down any specific element if useful.
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The kitchen you go on to illustrate seems to show little, if anything, of an 'electrical installation', other than the lights (and maybe one visible accessory)
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