1930's house black "tar" under parquet flooring

Joined
20 Oct 2020
Messages
109
Reaction score
3
Country
United Kingdom
My house was built around 1930.

The downstairs has a concrete floor for the hallway and suspended floors for the front / back reception rooms.

In the hallway a carpet has been laid over a parquet floor.

I was thinking about getting this floor restored as there are gaps and part of it has sunk. However each wooden plank has been coated with a black tar like substance.

There is around an 8 - 10mm layer of this material between the concrete and the bottom of the wooden planks.

Is this a damp proof course?

I also read worryingly that this material contains asbestos.

If so, I don't have a lot of options but to remove the parquet and dispose safely then attempt to seal the floor and somehow get it level.

Would appreciate any advice on the best approach.
 
Sponsored Links
Is this a DPM?

Yes and no. It is most likely to be a layer of bitumen, which was often spread hot and the parquet was pressed into it. It also acts as a DPM but over time it is prone to cracking.

One of the great things about parquet is that it is very repairable and can often be sanded out a dozen or more times and refinished, but rather than me answering how to do this (yet again), why not do a search of the forum for parquet repairs? The topic has come up 2 or 3 times in the last 18 months or so.

BTW if you are worried about asbestos, then absolutely the worst thing you can do is to rip it up, or vacuum it out with a domestic vac as both those activities will redistribute the fibres everywhere. Damped down and disturbed as little as possible is the way to go
 
The first bit was exactly what I needed to know as I wasn't sure what this material was or how it's used.

Other forum posts have mentioned asbestos mastick but the pictures always show a really thin layer of black glue rather than the thick layer that I have.

I will get it tested to see if it contains asbestos.
 
Doubt it will be asbestos, bitumen was used to glue the blocks to the concrete, it also acted as a dpm.

Lots of asbestos queries seem to relate to 1950’s Lino tiles that also had a bitumen ‘glue’ underneath. It was the tiles that contained the asbestos fibres, not the black stuff.

I’ve recently seen a renovated parquet floor, which was sanded once relaid, then filler was spread all over the floor, then sanded, it looked fantastic. Looked Like a teak Wood.

Get a P3 mask if still worried.
 
Sponsored Links
It won't - why would it?
But go ahead

AFAIK some earlier houses had more bitumen than later. My mid 50's uses a thin layer over a screed -used as a mix of DPM and a glue

You'd be amazed what a good sanding guy can do. I'd restore the floor. It wouldn't be cheap but neither is decent carpet plus all the clearing.
If blocks are missing they can be fixed.
One way is to remove the edge blocks as spares, and add a contrasting edge.
 
It won't - why would it?

I've read a few things that say bitumen contained a small percentage of chrysotile asbestos. If you search for "bitumen asbestos" you will also see them.

My plan is to restore the floor if I can do so.

Some sections of the parquet have subsided. The contractor that I spoke to had reservations about lifting those sections to level the sub floor due to the bitumen containing asbestos.

I'm not sure at this time how we could make it level again.
 
it would be tiny and IMHO, although the "safe limit is zero", I wouldn't worry too much.
So long as it's wet, there won't be dust flying.

when I removed bitumen from old blocks, the easiest way was genuine white spirt that allows the bitumen to soften and be removed with a knife
 
Just had the result and there was no asbestos detected.

It sounds like asbestos is more likely present in the black mastic that is applied underneath asbestos floor tiles.
 
I think there are some pretty big misconceptions here about the different products used.

There is a world of difference between applying a thin layer of a pre-manufactured adhesive from a bucket - as in the case of the the thin layers of adhesive used to fix the Marley and other (often asbestos containing) tiles so commonly used from the 1950s to the 1980s (note that latter date, adhesives containing asbestos were in use until the 1980s and usage was legal until the end of 1999) - and the thick layer of semi-molten bitumen that parquet was traditionally bedded into, where the parquet blocks are pushed into placed then hammered down to ensure a good bond. Because that process requires the heating of lumps of bitumen in a boiler to a molten state, incorporating asbestos - a heat insulator - would be counter productive, slowing down the process and increasing the cost of the gas used (if you've ever seen a bitumen boiler on the back of a lorry when they are doing road repairs you should be able to gauge the amount if heat generated by the boiler, and therefore the volume if gas required to do the job). In service a thick layer of adhesive is less likely to need an form of fibrous binder. That is one reason why you are highly unlikely to find asbestos fibres in a parquet flooring bitumen layer

Tile adhesive was often laid cold and incorporated fibres to help improve the cohesiveness of the product (in the same way that nylon or UHMW fibres are used in some concrete mixes) - in other words the fibres allow the installer to spread a very thin layer of adhesive which will resist breaking up even if the substrate, such as concrete, is moving as it cures. Parquet, on the other hand, a much older process, depends on having a thick layer of "adhesive" onto which the block are bonded

Some sections of the parquet have subsided. The contractor that I spoke to had reservations about lifting those sections to level the sub floor due to the bitumen containing asbestos.
Then find yourself another contractor, one who has experience of dealing with parquet. It isn't a common skill any more, but it hasn't died out completely. BTW the blocks don't "subside" - they can get worn over time

I'm not sure at this time how we could make it level again.
How bad is it, though? Are we talking about 3mm hollows, or 15mm hollows, here? Have you checked this with a long straight edge, an inspection lamp and some shim packers? 3mm hollows will sand out with a floor sander in many cases. For bigger differences a competent parquet flooring man will lift out any really low sections and also any damaged blocks and replace them (along with reinstating missing blocks) using matching recycled or brand new blocks, cut to size. It isn't rocket science and a comoetent DIYer should be able to do the job as well. The modern adhesives used are cold set glues and do not require a bitumen boiler any longer. Once the replacements are in he will then sand the floor flat.

Do a search of this forum for references to LeCol, one of the main adhesives used in the refurbishment process and you'll find greater detail. This isn't a cheap process, but the end results can be stunning when the job is done right. There are less and less of these floors out there, at least partly because some contractors can't be a***d to deal with them
 
Last edited by a moderator:
@JobAndKnock thanks for that detailed historical explanation.

I'm sure this thread will be useful for others who are looking into this issue in the future.
 
I recently put one of my customers in contact with a flooring guy that I trust. He, the flooring guy, explained that once they start using their machines to sand parquet flooring, the weight of the machine is likely to disturb other loose staves. His advice was to rip the whole lot up and start from fresh. Apparently, the cost of removing the tar like substance is prohibitive. My understanding is that they use very different floor sanders to those used by people who sand softwood floor boards (ie. not drum sanders).
 
This is an interesting point.
A lot of my staves are loose, some have already been removed (and stored) as part of other work we have needed to do.
They came up very easily so I would guess the bitumen bonding has failed.
 
staves or blocks?
My parquet is young and groove blocks, laid in herringbone. Only the edges are at risk from damage unless you go nuts with a hammer.

Finger Parquet was cheaper and generally used more recently.
It's just bits of wood laid side by side into tiles.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_3491.JPG
    IMG_3491.JPG
    183.1 KB · Views: 189
  • IMG_3494.JPG
    IMG_3494.JPG
    185.7 KB · Views: 109
Actually I'm not sure if it is staves or blocks - what's the difference?

It is laid herringbone and there are groves to connect each block / stave together.
 

DIYnot Local

Staff member

If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.

Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.


Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local

 
Sponsored Links
Back
Top