1950s meter tails

[Dave197616]

Hi Recently had a smart meter installed in my part renovated 1950s house and noted that the fitter has left connected up the old live 1950s cable to the second main fuse by the smart meter but changed the negative cable. The cable comes from a 1950s fuse connector which is connected to the mains in a kitchen cupboard behind the meter. I note that he has put warning tape on the fuse but I am concerned as the the cable is inside a kitchen cupboard and goes through the wall to the 2nd fuse right by the back door. Should he have changed this cable as well or requested the electric company change it as I have read that these old cables should not be touched etc due to age. Who is responsible for the cable as it is between two main fuses. If I contact the provider would they charge to have changed. I am concerned as the cable is in a kitchen cupboard. Thanks.
I have attached photos

 

[flameport]

Metering/supplier isn't responsible for that, it's the DNO. Call 105 to arrange replacement.
Whole lot's rather a mess, with that isolator only switching L, not the neutral.

 

[SUNRAY]

It looks to me that the meter fitter has simply changed the 4 tails on the meter, which is his juristriction on behalf of the energy provider.

The red wire through the wall is DNO juristriction.

Additionally the isolator isn't wired correctly

 

[Lectrician]

Additionally the isolator isn't wired correctly

Many suppliers and DNOs only switch the live on isolators.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

The colour of the neutral also changes from blue, to brown in the neutral joint at the top right of the photo.

All in all, a bit of a mess, which needs to be properly sorted out.

 

[winston1]

Hi Recently had a smart meter installed in my part renovated 1950s house and noted that the fitter has left connected up the old live 1950s cable to the second main fuse by the smart meter but changed the negative cable.

There is no negative with AC.

 

[SUNRAY]

The colour of the neutral also changes from blue, to brown in the neutral joint at the top right of the photo.

I see that as blue and grey sheaths.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

I see that as blue and grey sheaths.

OK..

 

[Lectrician]

The colour of the neutral also changes from blue, to brown in the neutral joint at the top right of the photo.

All in all, a bit of a mess, which needs to be properly sorted out.

Changes from blue sheathed to grey sheathed. Not possible to see what colour the tail actually is.

 

[plugwash]

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/2665/regulation/7

7.—(1) A generator or distributor shall, in the design, construction, maintenance or operation of his network, take all reasonable precautions to ensure continuity of the supply neutral conductor.

(2) No generator or distributor shall introduce or retain any protective device in any supply neutral conductor or any earthing connection of a low voltage network which he owns or operates.

Now technically an isolating switch is not a protective device and indeed there appears to be government guidance that says installing DP isolators is ok ( https://assets.publishing.service.g...t_data/file/82784/GuidElectSafety_Quality.pdf ), but I could see why some DNOs might decide to "play it safe" and not install any device that can break the neutral connection. If you look at the labelling on the OP's isolator you can clearly see that it is labelled as a single pole isolator.

I agree the DNO should be called out to take a look though, due to a combination of the very old live tail and the "danger treat as live" tape on the cutout (which I suspect indicates it is damaged in some way).

 

[JohnW2]

7.—(1) A generator or distributor shall, in the design, construction, maintenance or operation of his network, take all reasonable precautions to ensure continuity of the supply neutral conductor.
(2) No generator or distributor shall introduce or retain any protective device in any supply neutral conductor or any earthing connection of a low voltage network which he owns or operates.

.... I could see why some DNOs might decide to "play it safe" and not install any device that can break the neutral connection. If you look at the labelling on the OP's isolator you can clearly see that it is labelled as a single pole isolator.

Do not those regulations in ESQCR you quote only relate to what is within the scope/responsibility of the 'generation and distribution network' - i.e. upstream of the supplier's meter?

The isolator we are talking about is downstream of the meter, hence presumably within the scope of BS7671 (not ESQCR) and not within the DNO's responsibility,.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Lectrician]

Do not those regulations in ESQCR you quote only relate to what is within the scope/responsibility of the 'generation and distribution network' - i.e. upstream of the supplier's meter?

The isolator we are talking about is downstream of the meter, hence presumably within the scope of BS7671 (not ESQCR) and not within the DNO's responsibility,.

Kind Regards, John

The isolator clearly states “property of Scottish power”. If there’s an isolator installed by supplier or DNO, that’s the demarc point.

 

[JohnW2]

The isolator clearly states “property of Scottish power”. If there’s an isolator installed by supplier or DNO, that’s the demarc point.

I hadn't noticed that, but I don't really understand, and can but assume that there is some historical reason for this. My understanding is that, as things are now, not only are most other people 'not allowed' to touch DNO property upstream of the meter, but nor are the DNO 'allowed' to touch things (let alone install their own equipment) downstream of the meter.

Perhaps someone who understands the rules (particularly in the past) could help me understand?

I would also add that, for what it's worth, I don't recall ever having seen single-pole isolation installed in a domestic installation (even though I presume that it would theoretically be compliant with BS7671 in a TN installation) - but that may well be due to my limited experience/exposure.

Kind Regards, John

 

[flameport]

SP isolators exist, but they are designed that way.

Originally the regional electricity board did everything, and was responsible for the meter and everything before it.

Now, the DNO is only responsible for the supply and the cutout, the electricity supplier for the meter, cables and possibly an isolator if installed.
Changed as a necessary part of privatisation, so that metering and electricity supply were separated from distribution and infrastructure.

 

[john4703]

I do wonder why the OP did not ask the person who installed the new meter all these questions. It would be helpful to know what the installer said about it all.