not sure of regs - can you not have 2 single gas ovens ... i guess depends on the DIA of the existing pipework and whats needed and already in use
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2 Adjacent Electric Ovens on Ring Main
- Thread starter caveman2
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An electrician possibly could, some of us are ninja like
But hopefully without the swords and knives and killing everybody before they even know you're there...
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Maybe
Do you actually want advice and options, or is this another of those affairs where someone has mindlessly decided on some course of action, excluded all other possible choices and just wants others to confirm their plans are cool and normal?
How old?
If 'very' then what makes you believe that the existing circuit and this antique consumer unit are suitable to add 5kW+ of extra load to?
Replacing it could be one possible option. There are others.
which was properly inspected and tested recently to confirm it is indeed a ring, and the overcurrent protection for it is entirely suitable, and has the required RCD protection for these additional sockets/connections for these proposed ovens?
Yes, it would indeed be 'bad practice' to shove two ovens or any other pair of similar loads into a double socket.
It's also bad practice to shove a substantial load onto a ring at a single point, the very concept of which relies on the load being distributed around the ring.
Flamepoint. I'm sorry if appear ungrateful and/or wasting peoples time.
From the advice given I have decided against two ovens as I said. It will only add 2.35kW to the ring and not 5. I know it is a 30A final ring and not been interfered with since installation and therefor I trust it as I do not have a washing machine or tumble drier in the kitchen only the appliances I've mentioned.
Please accept my apologies if I've offended anybody and could I please close this thread by thanking everybody who contributed again.
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And even if OK from a load POV, isn't it the case that with a "very old" CU you might not be allowed to add any new sockets at all?
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There is a difference between working, and complying with regulations. And a 1950s installation is not dangerous because it does not have RCD protection etc. Although it would be safer with RCD protection, and although mineral insulated cables can last 100's of years, rubber cables don't, so in the main 1966 was the year when things changed. I was of course gradual, but in 1966 earthing rules changed, and also around that time we started using PVC cables.
We should get the installation inspected and tested every 10 years, 5 years for rented, but we all know, that does not happen. And what we use today, is not the same as what we used in the last century, and we now see manufacturers stipulating the use of RCD protection for their product, and to be frank, we don't know why, are their products more dangerous as to yesteryear?
We have reduced the size of wire used in a ring final, was 7/029 now 2.5 mm², the volt drop permitted has increased from 4% to 5%, the rules have changed to allow for plastic water pipes to be used, as long as we have RCD protection, and that has been in since 2008, so there are plumbers today who don't realise how putting in a bit of plastic pipe can mean electrical regulations are being broke.
The regulations say
So what is the problem, well 2.5 mm² is rated at about 20 amps, so it needs to draw current on both legs of a ring final to ensure the 30 amp fuse or 32 amp MCB will open before there is over 20 amps in one leg, and the closer the draw is to the origin, the more the current drawn will have an imbalance between the two legs. So in the centre of the ring no problem, but near the fusebox/consumer unit, there may be an overload.
As to regulations, one can continue to use existing, but to add then it has to comply with today's rules, so any new socket will need RCD protection, which also included and buried cables. Unless one of the special types of cable.
As to are RCDs that important, well I had one trip, and found due to water in the wall, which had caused the socket to swell as it was clearly arcing inside it, had the RCD not tripped, very likely there would have been a fire. But when I tried to fit RCD's to my parent's house, I had to remove it, as it was tripping all the time, until the house was re-wired.
And this is a problem, one can't know until tested, if you can fit RCDs without a re-wire, so what seems a simple small job, escalates into a major one.
I can, as a DIY guy, ignore the rules, who will catch me? But, could be problems with any insurance claim, however an electrician can't ignore the rules, so if something goes wrong, and you need an electrician, then one has a big problem. It depends on how pedantic he is, I can't suck through my teeth, not got any left.
We should get the installation inspected and tested every 10 years, 5 years for rented, but we all know, that does not happen. And what we use today, is not the same as what we used in the last century, and we now see manufacturers stipulating the use of RCD protection for their product, and to be frank, we don't know why, are their products more dangerous as to yesteryear?
We have reduced the size of wire used in a ring final, was 7/029 now 2.5 mm², the volt drop permitted has increased from 4% to 5%, the rules have changed to allow for plastic water pipes to be used, as long as we have RCD protection, and that has been in since 2008, so there are plumbers today who don't realise how putting in a bit of plastic pipe can mean electrical regulations are being broke.
The regulations say
Again, this is often ignored, I have a dishwasher which is not portable i.e. not on wheels, and over 18 kg, but I have no intension of supplying it with a dedicated radial circuit.
So what is the problem, well 2.5 mm² is rated at about 20 amps, so it needs to draw current on both legs of a ring final to ensure the 30 amp fuse or 32 amp MCB will open before there is over 20 amps in one leg, and the closer the draw is to the origin, the more the current drawn will have an imbalance between the two legs. So in the centre of the ring no problem, but near the fusebox/consumer unit, there may be an overload.
As to regulations, one can continue to use existing, but to add then it has to comply with today's rules, so any new socket will need RCD protection, which also included and buried cables. Unless one of the special types of cable.
As to are RCDs that important, well I had one trip, and found due to water in the wall, which had caused the socket to swell as it was clearly arcing inside it, had the RCD not tripped, very likely there would have been a fire. But when I tried to fit RCD's to my parent's house, I had to remove it, as it was tripping all the time, until the house was re-wired.
And this is a problem, one can't know until tested, if you can fit RCDs without a re-wire, so what seems a simple small job, escalates into a major one.
I can, as a DIY guy, ignore the rules, who will catch me? But, could be problems with any insurance claim, however an electrician can't ignore the rules, so if something goes wrong, and you need an electrician, then one has a big problem. It depends on how pedantic he is, I can't suck through my teeth, not got any left.
I would choose to plug the ovens into single sockets, each wired directly to the ring, as opposed to spurs.
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