2 way switch dilema

[tubbs33]

I stay in a late 60s early 70s house.

I am replacing switches in a hall which has one light at the top ( 2 way ) and a light at the bottom (straight forward on/off.) The bottom switch is a double one, half a straight on/off and the other for the upper light (2 way)

I have searched about and the wiring i have seems a bit wierd, any help would be gratefully received. From what i can see a 2 way system should have 3 wires at each end.

At the top switch i have only a black and a red wire available to use. However there is a 2 core cable coming from the bottom which is linked directly to one going up at the top ( red to red and black to blue ).

At the bottom i have the following: a red wire which has another red wire 'spur' attached to it, another red, a blue and a black. I think the blue is the return for the lower light from memory of they way it was originally

This was working fine with the old switches but stupidly i did not make a note of the original connections.
thanks in advance, hope i am not repeating previous advice.

 

[plugwash]

can you draw us a diagram?

unless there are relays involved there HAVE to be connections to all 3 terminals of the switch for two way switching.

 

[Lectrician]

A photo of each switch would help.

It is possible to 2 way switch with just a 2 core between the switches, using a live to feed the com of the first 2way switch from the one way switch, and using possibly a shared neutral upstairs (although if it is on the same circuit, it isn't shared).

Sorry, too much drink, little explanation.

A photo of the rear of the switches would be great!

 

[tubbs33]

I didn;t think there would be straightforward answer. Not sure how i would get either pics or a diagram on here ?

 

[breezer]

see this
please also note my signature

 

[tubbs33]

I did read the rules as i joined and i already pointed out my original mistake in not noting the original positions.
I posted as i felt that none of the previous diagrams advice etc applied to set of circumstances i have, and also cos i felt that even if i got the things working again, the wiring may not be as would be expected as standard.

I take it you feel my circumstances have already been covered, and for that i am sorry if i have watsed any of your time.

 

[Lectrician]

See THIS referred to how to post a pic or diag!

We can help, but only with yours

A better description of what is behind each switch would help if you cant put up a pic. How may cables are there, meaning how many outer sheaths?? What colours of these cables are there??

 

[tubbs33]

Sorry if i am missing something but when i press the 'this' i get a the set of rules etc.

I will try to be clearer, thanks for your patience.

On the top switch there is 2 seperate cables which seem to be coming from below the rear box, one has a black and red cable and it is these that were previously wired to the old switch.

There is a third cable coming in from above the rear box. This third cable is wired directly the other lower cable, the upper blue is connected to lower black and the other is red to red. Both these connections appear to be semi permanent each into a small plastic peices which is u shaped with the wires going in the middle.

At the bottom end things are less clear, basically all the cables come into the box with no separate sheathings.

I get the feeling that with the best will in the world i may have to seek qualified help, like a doctor
Thnaks again

 

[plugwash]

upload the images somewhere like http://imagehost.darkernet.co.uk/ and put the url of the image in the post in between {img} and {/img} tags (replace { with [ and } with ])

you mention red and blue this is an unusual combination to see on its own is there any sign of a (possiblly broken off) yellow wire?

 

[breezer]

Sorry if i am missing something but when i press the 'this' i get a the set of rules etc.

you are right, it does show forum rules, but it didnt. try it again ( i just checked and changed it)