stairs lighting switches

[Damien91]

I have a 2 way 2 gang switch at the bottom of my stairs with 5 wires in, at the top Is a 2 way 1 gang with 5 wires in, the top switch and one bottom switch control the top light, but the bottom light will not switch on, there are 3 red and 2 black wires to each switch, with 2 reds and 2 blacks paired together and one red on its own, at the bottom the single red goes to one of the coms and the reds and blacks go to one L1/L2 respectively, at the top the two reds go to L1, the 2 blacks go to L2 and the single red goes to the com, can anyone help me work out why it isn't working correctly, Thanks.

 

[Taylortwocities]

To precis. The only problem is with the downstairs light, is that correct?

Pictures please of both switches!

Impossible to suggest anything otherwise.

 

[endecotp]

Did it ever work? If so, what has changed? Have you checked the bulb?

 

[Damien91]

I am unable to provide pictures at the moment, but yes the problem is the bottom light only, and the bulb is fine

 

[Damien91]

As of this setup there is the single red in the top com, a red and it's paired black in L1 and L2 at the top and the other red and it's paired black in L1 and L2 at the bottom

 

[Damien91]

At the top of the stairs, the single red wire goes to the com on the top, the 2 reds go to L1 and the 2 blacks go to L2

 

[Spark123]

If the red and black are in L1 and L2 of a single way circuit it won't work which it sounds like you have done in the two gang switch. The switching contacts are between Com-L1 OR Com-L2 depending which way the switch is, talking about the pic above there is no connection in the switch between L1 and L2.
In an upshot, red to COM, black to L1.
(Blacks ought to have a red sleeve to indicate they are being used as line conductors)

 

[securespark]

At the foot of the stairs you will have two switches each with a set of C, L1 and L2 (or L1 L2 and L3) terminals.

One set of terminal will have wires in every terminal, this will be the two way for the landing light.

Assuming you only have one switch for the hall, it should have two terminals occupied.

It sounds from your description that these wires are currently in L1/L2. If this is the case, the red should be moved to the vacant C terminal and the black placed in L1.

If you do have two switches for the hall, light, it may be that you are missing a link from one Common terminal to the other.

HOWEVER, I cannot say with all certainty that either of these solutions is the correct one.

You must do further testing and investigation. If you cannot, you should call in an electrician.

 

[endecotp]

Has it ever worked?

 

[securespark]

Reading all your posts again, it sounds as if the upstairs and downstairs lights are on different circuits.

If this is the case, you must not link the commons in the downstairs switch.

 

[Damien91]

If the red and black are in L1 and L2 of a single way circuit it won't work which it sounds like you have done in the two gang switch. The switching contacts are between Com-L1 OR Com-L2 depending which way the switch is, talking about the pic above there is no connection in the switch between L1 and L2.
In an upshot, red to COM, black to L1.
(Blacks ought to have a red sleeve to indicate they are being used as line conductors)

I understand this completely, where I have now got confused is the 3rd red wire, there are 3 sets of wires, there is a red wire and a black wire in one grey sleeve, another red wire and black wire in a second grey sleeve, and then a 3rd red wire in a grey sleeve on its own

 

[Spark123]

We normally use 3c + earth as the strapper between 2 way switches but in years gone by they used a single red along with twin and earth.
The wiring is similar to here: //www.diynot.com/wiki/Electrics:two_way_lighting_nonharm_tb
just remember you have red(on it's own), red and black instead of red, yellow, blue. In the drawing the yellow core will be your red(on it's own), red = red and blue=black.

In the downstairs switch, for the side of the switch you wish to use for the upstairs light you need the twin and earth from the upstairs switch connected to the L1 and L2 and the red on it's own to the com. Remember the switch terminals are usually arranged in a triangle on the back, (in the drawing you posted before.)
The switch at the top of the stairs sounds like it is connected correctly.

For the other downstairs switch which is only being used as 1 way the relevant twin and earth red/black goes connects between L1 and com.

 

[Damien91]

We normally use 3c + earth as the strapper between 2 way switches but in years gone by they used a single red along with twin and earth.
The wiring is similar to here: //www.diynot.com/wiki/Electrics:two_way_lighting_nonharm_tb
just remember you have red(on it's own), red and black instead of red, yellow, blue. In the drawing the yellow core will be your red(on it's own), red = red and blue=black.

In the downstairs switch, for the side of the switch you wish to use for the upstairs light you need the twin and earth from the upstairs switch connected to the L1 and L2 and the red on it's own to the com. Remember the switch terminals are usually arranged in a triangle on the back, (in the drawing you posted before.)
The switch at the top of the stairs sounds like it is connected correctly.

For the other downstairs switch which is only being used as 1 way the relevant twin and earth red/black goes connects between L1 and com.

Thank you Spark123, this sounds like exactly my problem, I shall endeavour to test it tomorrow, thank you for your help

 

[securespark]

I understand this completely, where I have now got confused is the 3rd red wire, there are 3 sets of wires, there is a red wire and a black wire in one grey sleeve, another red wire and black wire in a second grey sleeve, and then a 3rd red wire in a grey sleeve on its own

Unless I'm mistaken, it sounds like the switch at the top of the stairs contains the switch wire and feed from the landing light (one cable with red and black) plus 3 cores to run the downstairs switch (another cable with red and black and one red on its own).

These days, three core cable is common in these situations, but at one time it was common (excuse the pun!!) to see twin and earth and singles.
EDIT: Apologies to Spark 123 - I did not read your post fully...

At the switch at the foot of the stairs the 3 cores running to the downstairs switch will go to one set of switch terminals thus: the red and black together to L1 and L2 and the red single to Common.

The remaining twin and earth in the downstairs switch connected to the L1 and L2 is I suspect the hall feed and switch wire. As Spark 123 has pointed out, in this configuration, the switch will not do anything.

To get the other light(s) working, the feed should go to the Common and the switch wire to L1.

However, as I have said, you will need to do further investigation and testing to prove the situation before making any alterations.

 

[Damien91]

Here is a picture of my downstairs and upstairs switches after making the changes suggested by spark123, the upstairs light works correctly but the downstairs does not at all,