30 days to fix a 'leak'

[Hugh Jaleak]

Struggling with this one so can I throw it out there?

(Ex) Sister in Law has had a visit from Anglian Water to inform her they have a leak on their property, and have 30 days to repair it!

It's a shared supply on private property, so I understand they are liable for fixing it, but with little idea of where the pipe runs and no obvious signs of a leak, (the AW Guy has listened at the Boundary stoptap, and again in their outside WC and concluded the leak is on their property), but where do you start looking?

Funnily enough this has all come about since the Neighbour has removed a number of mature Leylandii, and dug footings for an extension. (The SiL objected to the extension and relations have been sour ever since.)

 

[sxturbo]

Where is the external stop cock/ water meter if it's fitted?

Usually they are a straight run from that.

P.s guy I work for suddenly had a 5k bill from the water company one month, was astounded as there was no evidence of a leak on the surface, took 2 visits for the water board to find that it was leaking on his land. He shares the drive with his neighbour, and the neighbour had recently had all new paved drive installed right up to the meter, just seemed a bit convenient.. anyway the water board wrote off the bill, and fixed it for him, but he had to pay for the water board to fix it. Think they added the cost to his monthly payments. Cost him a couple of k.

 

[HERTS P&D]

Is there a water meter? If so turn off the interior stop tap, then if the meter still spins then the leak is between the meter and internal stop tap.

Andy

 

[Madrab]

As far as I remember @Ian H does a bit of leak tracing work, may be able to offer something?

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

It's a shared supply, comes in from the road under Number 39, then splits off to feed 35, 37 (Sister in Laws), 39 and 41. Stoptap in the road shuts off all 4, then they have individual stoptaps in the house and outside WC I believe.

Just at a complete loss where to start looking, with no obvious signs of a leak, (the pipe is exposed in the footing trench in 39, before it enters SiL's property, no sign of anything remotely wet there. I could assume it runs in a fairly straight line to their property, but then it's got to pass by the rear to feed 35, and also branches off for the outside WC. This area is concrete driveway, garden slopes away towards the rear of the property.

Its like looking for a needle in a haystack, so have thrown it back at AW to see if they've any ideas to narrow the search down a bit.

Andy, no meter at the boundary, the AW Guy has made his judgement by listening at the boundary stoptap and again in the outside WC at 37. Madrab, thanks for the suggestion but I think Ian is too far from me to be able to help.

 

[HERTS P&D]

If the garden slopes down, is the bottom of the garden wet? I have had this before where the leak was by the house but due to the garden sloping downwards all the water was collecting at the bottom of the garden, with Thames water saying is was an underground stream.

New water supply sorted it out.

Andy

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

If the garden slopes down, is the bottom of the garden wet? I have had this before where the leak was by the house but due to the garden sloping downwards all the water was collecting at the bottom of the garden, with Thames water saying is was an underground stream.

New water supply sorted it out.

Andy

Not to my knowledge, (it is a fairly long garden), and then drops at the end into the garden of the property below them in the next street. I'd suggest a new supply, but the problem would still remain, the pipe would have to be left under their property to supply the neighbour at 35, and its possibly this pipe that's leaking!

If its losing 5.5 litres a minute, that's 3000 gallons in 24 hrs... It's got to be going somewhere!

 

[Nige F]

It's a shared supply, comes in from the road under Number 39, then splits off to feed 35, 37 (Sister in Laws), 39 and 41. Stoptap in the road shuts off all 4, then they have individual stoptaps in the house and outside WC I believe.

the AW Guy has made his judgement by listening at the boundary stoptap and again in the outside WC at 37. .

But did he listen @ the other WC's - surely the noise will be heard all through the pipework ? . Maybe there is some leeway (in regs) re: shared supplies.

 

[Ian H]

If the pipe is exposed in the foundation trench I would cut there and fit an in-line meter to so if the leak is before or after that point.

Assuming the leak is further up, next thing, if it’s metal pipe I’d clip the Genny on and trace the tee for your sister in law. If plastic I’d put the trace wire up and hope to hit the tee with that.

You could do an overland pipe from there connected temporarily to outside taps.

 

[Ian H]

If there is no meter the guy is just guessing at 5.5l minute. Depending on how the pipe is damaged alters the noise, a pinhole is noisy where as a longer split from a crush is quiet.

 

[ianmcd]

Cant really see how the AW can say it is on your SL s pipework ?

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Thanks All. Doesn't help matters that the SiL and the Neighbour are not on the best of terms. She and Family have lived there for around 30 years, next door turned up a couple of years ago and immediately stated his plans to extend to accommodate his rather large Family. She and her Husband were rather unhappy with the proposals, told him they would be objecting, and the relationship soured from there.

It's a Lead pipe, houses are circa 1940's post war build, both now ex Council. No meter on the shared section for obvious reasons, and unlikely the SiL has one as 4 Adults in the house! Interesting he's guessing at 5.5 litres a min, did wonder how he arrived at that figure, obviously without a meter it has to be guesswork. I've written them a letter to fire back at AW, see what they say.

She's not saying she hasn't got a leak, but it seems coincidental this has all started since next door has been digging, there is no sign of a leak, and no-one seems to know where the pipe runs, where it could be leaking and/or offering any help on getting it fixed!

 

[Ian H]

Her insurance company should locate the leak, if the lead is corroded on her bit they might charge for the actual repair but not the investigating part to find it.

If I got sent to that, with the neighbour issue, I’d clamp on the lead where it’s exposed and then trace it through into your SIL’s garden and do my cut and cap/inline meter there. It should be easy to locate her tee off if it’s lead.

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

This is AW we're dealing with... Had an issue before with another property, single Occupier and I suggested she'd save money going on a meter. AW came out and 'surveyed' the job, Guy said she had 2 supplies, (one into the house, and one into the outside WC, (which had been tee'd off to feed a shower in the bathroom above), so would need 2 meters. I pointed out that turning off the Stoptap under the kitchen sink actually shut off the outside WC as well, so if a second meter was fitted, she'd be paying twice for every shower.

The AW Bloke would not accept that, his argument was, due to the lead supply for the outside WC rising from the floor, it must be tee'd outside the building. I said I dont know (or care) where it's tee'd off Mate, the one stoptap shuts the lot off so it's tee'd off upstream of the stoptap!

 

[ianmcd]

I had similar mate scottish water I asked for a meter as I am never home they fit one , my first bill is crazy, I called and said no you have made a mistake , nope we cant have so I went out and turned the SC off in my property and went to work , come home and the whole street out going mental because they have no water, the SC was on my property and told them no way were they doing anything on my property till the bill was sorted, I still dont know how they do individual billing , as no actuall work was done but I am about £300 a year which I still think is too expensive