4 wires to 2 (loop in/out) help?

[Saschlet]

Hi, does anyone know if there is a gadget that can join my loops together? I am changing MR16 downlights to GU10 so there are 4 wires into the transformer and 2 out to the light.

I have squeezed the 2 same colour wires into the same connector and tested. All fine. When I push them back into the roof one of the wires in the group of 6 lights comes loose and they all stop working except 1. I could take them all out again and tighten them all up (again) but I suspect when I push them up, the same will happen again. Any suggestions greatly appreciated! I had the same problem with the other lights I changed but as there were only 3, I just took them all out and re-did them (again and again!).

 

[sparkwright]

So you've removed the transformers?

So what are you using to join the wires together with then?

Some kind of junction box, I expect?

Tell us what you're using, then we can give you some proper advice.

Are you using mains rated cable from the joint to the GU10 fittings? You should be.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

How big is the cable?

And why is there no earth conductor?

You could use an Ashley J803 junction box, but you really, really ought to be able to get 2 x 1mm² or 1.5mm² conductors into one light terminal. If you can't then either you are at fault, and need to keep practising, or the lights are not fit for purpose and should be returned.

What's at the switch? Unless the circuit loops through there, i.e. if all that's there is a permanent and switched live, then there must already be a JB somewhere, so you could wire in a star fashion from that.

But as I say - you really, really should be able to connect them with no JBs.

 

[JohnW2]

So you've removed the transformers? ... So what are you using to join the wires together with then? ... Some kind of junction box, I expect?

I though the OP meant that he was trying get the 'switched mains in' conductors and 'switched mains out' conductors (to the nxt light) (with no mention of an earth/CPC) into the terminals of the light fitting - which, as BAS has said, surely should be possible.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Wotz all this talk about JBs?

Kind Regards, John

 

[winston1]

[quote="Saschlet";p="3304770" I am changing MR16 downlights to GU10 so [/quote]

This is meaningless. MR16 refers to the size of the multi faceted reflector in eights of an inch. GU 10 refers to the base.

The majority of GU10 lamps are MR16s.

 

[Saschlet]

Sorry, to specify. Yes I have taken the transformers out so I am left with 4 wires coming out of the ceiling (2 live, 2 neutral) that come off the loop. They previously went into the in out transformer. I connected them into the little white JB (it is a simple little white box with 4 holes with screws to fasten - 2 each side). Inserting 2 wires from the loop into this box is obvs not ideal but I lack an alternative. I found one wire had come out slightly when pushing them back into the roof so I tightened it and it has now completed the circuit so all the lights work.

Apologies for getting the exact terminology wrong. I was changing 12v bulbs to 240v bulbs and taking out the transformer. All of the ones I came across were either 12v mr16 or 240v gu10. I have never seen a 240 mr16 or a 12v gu10

 

[winston1]

I have never seen a 240 mr16 or a 12v gu10

So what are your replacement 240 volt GU10 lamps then? If they are spot lights the same size of your prievous 12 volt ones they are MR16.

12 volt GU10 are available but rare.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Sorry, to specify. Yes I have taken the transformers out so I am left with 4 wires coming out of the ceiling (2 live, 2 neutral)

You should also have 2 earths. Even if the lights don't need an earth connection there should be one going to each point. And if the lights do need an earth connection you must not use them until you've recabled. As per my earlier question, if the lightning circuit loop runs in the ceiling then there will (should) be a junction box where the switch cable is connected, and there will (should) be an earth there, so you can recable with twin and earth from there to the lights.

that come off the loop.

FYI in correct terminology that is not the loop. The loop is the permanent live/neutral/earth that runs (traditionally) from light to light, but increasingly these days runs from switch to switch.

//www.diynot.com/wiki/Electrics:Lighting-Circuit-layouts

They previously went into the in out transformer. I connected them into the little white JB (it is a simple little white box with 4 holes with screws to fasten - 2 each side). Inserting 2 wires from the loop into this box is obvs not ideal but I lack an alternative.

It is ideal - that's exactly what should happen, and how they are meant to be wired.

I found one wire had come out slightly when pushing them back into the roof so I tightened it and it has now completed the circuit so all the lights work.

Given the history you should pop them all out again, and give all the cables a good tug and a wiggle, then put the lights back. If you have got a dodgy connection that is the way you want to find it, not by smelling smoke at some time in the future.

Apologies for getting the exact terminology wrong. I was changing 12v bulbs to 240v bulbs and taking out the transformer. All of the ones I came across were either 12v mr16 or 240v gu10. I have never seen a 240 mr16 or a 12v gu10

Don't worry - it's a common mistake. It's a bit like trying to draw a distinction between "candle bulb" and "screw-in bulb".

MR16 & GU10 are not related in a mutually exclusive way. It is not a case of a lamp being MR16 OR GU10 - the terms apply to different parts of it.

GU10 is a type of base, and MR16 (multifaceted reflector, 16/8" diameter) is a type of envelope.

You can get MR16 lamps with either a GU10 or a GX5.3 base:

Nearly all GU10-base lamps have MR16 envelopes, although you can get MR11:

 

[Saschlet]

Thanks everyone. I did take them out and put the wires back into each little white box and super tightened so when I put them back up, they stayed on this time. I have of course reconnected each earth back together within the loop. The problem is likely the strain of pushing the downlight through a hole that is only just big enough. Another 1mm extra off the hole and I think it would be easier!

 

[ban-all-sheds]

If you angle it so that all of the cable is above the ceiling before you straighten it and finish pushing it into place, that will help.