A different view on the economy

[bernardgreen]

How many years would your cash-in-hand roof thatcher have to evade tax to reach Philip's £160million? A hundred lifetimes?

First of all he is not cash in hand thatcher. Do NOT make false allegations.

How many risks did Philip take ? would you critise a person who made millions at poker tables. ? How many people started on the same starting point as Philip and lost everything on a single turns of the cards ( failed business venture )

At leas Philip created work for a lot of people. The winning gambler doesn't create jobs, the losing gambler does by helping to finance the casino..

 

[JohnD]

so who are "the poorer people who work for cash in hand" that you've been paying, and you surmise are evading tax?

the gardener? the greengrocer? how do you know what tax a thatcher pays? would you know, if like Oily Pig Boy, he had a secret trust fund in Panama? Or if like Starbucks he was routing his revenue through Ireland?

Maybe you've been buying things from Amazon.

 

[bernardgreen]

so who are "the poorer people who work for cash in hand" that you've been paying,

Another allegation

 

[JohnD]

I also think that a lot of tax is not paid by "the poorer" people who work for cash in hand and do not declare that income to the Inland Revenue.

You brought it up.

 

[bernardgreen]

"the poorer people who work for cash in hand" that you've been paying,

hence allegation

You brought it up.

because you and your bias would be un-likely to bring up anything which suggested the down trodden population were dis-honest with money and accounting.

 

[JohnD]

I'm sure that there are some poor people who commit fraud. It's odd that you make your claim without admitting to know any.

As you doubtless know, the amount of money defrauded by rich people is much bigger than the amount by poor people. Even if it's only an unproven suspicion, poor people can have their benefits stopped. Influential people, newspaper owners and MPs who make the laws very rarely receive means-tested benefits.

For some reason rich people get an easier ride, and commonly when billionaires or corporations are caught, they are often allowed to get off with only paying a fraction of what is owed.

Influential people, newspaper owners and MPs who make the laws are almost invariably rich people.

I can't think why there should be a correlation.

http://www.theweek.co.uk/62461/benefit-fraud-v-tax-evasion-which-costs-more

Were you surprised by the information on BTL landlords I gave you earlier?

 

[Gerrydelasel]

it was a source of great frustration to anybody who had studied economics (which excludes the Thatcher woman) since 1940.

You're thinking of Keynesian economics which was very popular after the war. The only problem with Keynes is that he was mostly wrong.

 

[JohnD]

clearly opinions differ.

 

[Gerrydelasel]

clearly opinions differ.

Fortunately, the facts of history don't care about opinions.

 

[JohnD]

fortunate indeed that the damage caused by thatchers economic illiteracy has waned.

 

[JohnD]

As you doubtless know, the amount of money defrauded by rich people is much bigger than the amount by poor people. Even if it's only an unproven suspicion, poor people can have their benefits stopped. Influential people, newspaper owners and MPs who make the laws very rarely receive means-tested benefits.

"Last year, 0.7% of total benefit expenditure was overpaid due to fraud, according to the DWP's official estimates. This totalled £1.2bn over the year. Nor is fraud getting worse – even against a background of benefit cuts and long-term unemployment fraud made up a smaller share of the welfare bill last year than it did in 2010/11 or 2009/10.

Indeed, welfare fraud is smaller than accidental overpayments due to error, which totalled £2.2bn (£1.4bn of which due to official error). It's also smaller than the amount of money underpaid to those entitled to it: £1.3bn."

"...HMRC consistently estimates the UK's tax gap – the gap between what HMRC thinks it should receive versus what it actually gets – at more than £30bn per year. Others estimate this is far, far higher.

Of this, even conservative estimates suggest around a sixth – £5bn a year – is lost through tax avoidance, tricks to reduce tax bills which fall within the letter (if not spirit) of the law, but often fall outside what's regarded as acceptable by the public. A further sixth, at least, is estimated to be due to wholesale tax evasion: simply illegally not paying the tax that's owed.

These conservative estimates alone outweigh benefit fraud by a factor of eight, but this time not done in tens (or at most hundreds) of pounds per week by people struggling to get by; but rather by people who could afford to pay more, but prefer not to."

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/feb/01/welfare-fraud-tax-avoidance

Now here's a funny thing:

"Angus Robertson, the Scottish National party’s leader in Westminster, asked the prime minister why 3,250 Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) staff have been assigned to investigate welfare fraud, while 300 specialise in dealing with the rich."

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/13/benefit-or-tax-evasion-row-over-the-tories-targets

 

[Gerrydelasel]

Benefits are not earned income. Holding onto your own money is not the same as holding onto someone else's.

 

[JohnD]

Benefits are not earned income. Holding onto your own money is not the same as holding onto someone else's.

fraudulently evading tax is fraud. fraudulently claiming benefits is fraud.

it's sweet that you respect wealthy people so much that you are more tolerant of their crimes.

I wonder if you will ever be retired and claiming a pension, or disabled and receiving help. Perhaps some day you will be unable to earn a living, or perhaps one day you will have children and become entitled to Child Benefit. Maybe a family member will become sick or disabled and you will have to take time off work to look after them.

Perhaps one day you will receive some unearned income, maybe from investing in shares or rental homes, or from selling your stash of gold bars. It will be interesting to see if you have any complaint when this unearned income is not received from time to time.

 

[Gerrydelasel]

fraudulently evading tax is fraud. fraudulently claiming benefits is fraud.

But tax is also fraud. Until the government send me a tax consent form that is.

 

[JohnD]

oh gerry, you are silly.