Adding another light switch and lamp holder

[Lieutenant Columbo]

hello,

In my hallway I have on light fitting but 3 seperate single gang switches at various points for it.
I also have a switch that turns on the light in the loft.
I want to add a lamp holder and switch in a cupboard in the hall.
The loft switch is right next to where I want to install my new swtich and one of the hall switches is also not too far way, about 2 feet.

I was wondering: could i take a live/neutral/earth from the loft switch and wire into my new cupboard switch and then take a live/neutral/earth to the lamp holder?

I watched a video on youtube and it explained that normally power is first fed to the ceiling rose, then back down to the switch, and then but up to the ceiling rose before repeating the same circuit on the next ceiling rose and switch. No where did it say that you could spur off from one of the switches. I gather that the correct procedure would be to tee off from the ceiling rose when adding a new lamp holder and switch.

But that loft switch is right there... lol would what I'm proposing work? Could it be as simple as what I ntend to do?

 

[bernardgreen]

could i take a live/neutral/earth from the loft switch

Yes if there is a Neutral there.

The blue ( or black ) wire connected to the switch is NOT a Neutral. It is Switched Live.

 

[Lieutenant Columbo]

Yes if there is a Neutral there.

The blue ( or black ) wire connected to the switch is NOT a Neutral. It is Switched Live.

Ok... i assume that it would be marked in some way to identify it? I don't have an electrical tester to check which wire is live.

 

[winston1]

You can never assume. But if a blue or black wire is connected to the switch it is a switched live. It may have a brown or red red sleeve on it or it may not.
Any neutral at the switch is probably two wires joined in a block.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I don't have an electrical tester to check which wire is live.

If you had no screwdrivers with which to remove/install switches and do the screws of the terminals, fix light fittings, no cutters to cut and strip cables, no drills/chisels for making holes in walls etc, would you be asking how to do those things given that you don't have the tools, or would you simply make sure you had them?

It's the same with having a tester - if you want to do electrical work it's an essential tool.

A proper 2-pole one, not a neon screwdriver or magic wand.

 

[Lieutenant Columbo]

You can never assume. But if a blue or black wire is connected to the switch it is a switched live. It may have a brown or red red sleeve on it or it may not.
Any neutral at the switch is probably two wires joined in a block.

Right. Thanks. Seems simple enough.

 

[Lieutenant Columbo]

Is it strictly necessary to fit a pattress box behind the light switch? I ask this because I've discovered a piece of studwork intersecting to stop behind the switch...

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Yes.

 

[Lieutenant Columbo]

Yes.

Urh. I guess I'll have to fit an ugly surface mounted box then.

 

[JohnW2]

Urh. I guess I'll have to fit an ugly surface mounted box then.

Or fit a non-ugly one in a slightly different place, where there isn't a bit of obstructing studwork ... or consider mutilating the studwork.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

It's inside a cupboard - would a surface box be that terrible?

Or change the loft light switch to a 2-gang. Not necessarily wise to have the switch inside the cupboard, as you won't know if the light has been left on. At least with the switch outside there's a chance you'll notice.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Any neutral at the switch is probably two wires joined in a block.

Probably.

But not necessarily - 2 blacks/blues joined like that might be because the switch was installed by a numpty who thought you couldn't use them for a switched live.

 

[Lieutenant Columbo]

IMG_0143

• Lieutenant Columbo
• 15 Sep 2017

MK 1G SP 2 way

So I'm wondering where the earth goes, SP stands for, and the 1 and 2. Basically I only know for certain that the common is the permanent live in.

The wiring i looked up on the internet is totally different. They have L1 and L2. I simply was instructed to wire the neutral (switched live) to L1.

What is the switched live on this plate? Is it SP or 1? I'm guessing tha thye don't think the earth is necessary of that it should be wired in the dry ling box...

 

[EFLImpudence]

So I'm wondering where the earth goes,

Either to a terminal in a metal back box or a separate piece of connector block to keep it isolated.

SP stands for,

SPare ?
There is no terminal (brass connector) in it.

and the 1 and 2.
They have L1 and L2.

Can you see a similarity?

I simply was instructed to wire the neutral (switched live) to L1.

Neutral is the name of the conductor which completes the circuit from the load back to the supply.
It is not a name of a black or blue piece of wire.
The wires can be anything we want them to be; they do not know what colour they are.

If you have taken a Live/Neutral/Earth from a supply then the Switched Live will be the same colour as the Supply Live, won't it?

Basically I only know for certain that the common is the permanent live in.

It is in your case, but not always.
Common means it connects to 1 or 2.

What is the switched live on this plate? Is it SP or 1?

There is no terminal in SP.
The switched live may be connected to either 1 or 2 - depending on which position you want the switch rocker to be when on or off.

I'm guessing tha thye don't think the earth is necessary of that it should be wired in the dry ling box...

You cannot earth plastic.

 

[EFLImpudence]

https://www.flameport.com/electric/lighting_circuits/lighting_switchtypes.cs4

https://www.flameport.com/electric/lighting_circuits/lighting_loop_at_switch.cs4