Advice for newby

[bpowell555]

I have a small bathroom with a ceiling light on a pull switch that also switches on the extractor fan (not timed). There is no other power in the bathroom although there is a light switch for the hall outside the door and a socket across the hall.

The bathroom is marble tiled apart from the ceiling and so is I guess susceptible to condensation but I would like a towel heater - thinking small electric but situation just above rad could make dual fuel relatively easy proposition.

Question is: is the best way of doing this to run trunking off the pull switch junction box? I'm thinking I will get an electrician in to do this (or father in law) but being a bit of an autodidact I would at least want to know a) what they should/will be doing and b) whether following some research I could do it myself.

No "you're gonna dies" please, I'm aware of the precautions I need to take and DO own a multi meter.

This site looks great btw.

TIA.

 

[AdamW]

Despite towel-rails being lowish-powered devices (around 100W), you really shouldn't be powering them off a lighting circuit.

What is on the other side of the wall you want the towel rail on? you could minimise disruption and save your expensive marble walls if you run the cables through from the other side of the wall, in metal conduit if required.

Something I should point out just in case you are unaware of it -----> Part P.

 

[bpowell555]

Great Forum!!!




Is Part P the Zone regulations?

Light switch on other side of wall is kind of wrong side of door as I saw it. Rather than towel rail above rad and next to sink it would be behind door (split vertically in half) with toilet between bath and rail. Or could run the cable round the door frame?

I take your point about not installing it on the lighting circuit. Might they could not have made provision for power in the bathroom because the zones were too small?

What would a spark charge for this sort of job?

Thanks!

(new to homeowning... capentry is easier ...)

 

[mapj1]

Part P is a new ish approved document to the building regs that makes certain types of electrical work notifiable to building control. Unless you belong to a (jolly expensive) certification scheme, when the notification part becomes almost free, and only 1 or 2 jobs a year are inspected, you have to call in the building inspectors whenever you do wiring in the kitchen bathroom or garden (this is very oversimplified - but the proper document is a 40 page read on the ODPM website.) The problem is that they charge at levels often exceeding the cost of the job for small work, which does tend to discourage notification, although technically not to involve building control is a potentially serious offence, even if the work is perfect.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

but the proper document is a 40 page read on the ODPM website

Actually that's just the Guidance Document, it isn't the actual legal requirements.

1) The official stuff:

a - the relevant amendment to the Building Regulations: http://www.hmso.gov.uk/si/si2004/20043210.htm

b - links to the rest of the parts of the Building Regulations: http://www.odpm.gov.uk/stellent/groups/odpm_buildreg/documents/page/odpm_breg_600270.hcsp

c - The ODPM Guidance Document: http://www.odpm.gov.uk/stellent/groups/odpm_buildreg/documents/page/odpm_breg_033485.pdf

d - The ODPM Electrical Safety page: http://www.odpm.gov.uk/stellent/groups/odpm_buildreg/documents/divisionhomepage/br0054.hcsp

2) Other places for info, arguments, and lot of contradictory views, but the more you read the better feel you will get for it:

http://www.screwfix.com/talk/forum.jspa?forumID=23

http://www.iee.org/Forums/forum/index.cfm

you can search those fora for Part P, which unfortunately you cannot do here because of the useless search facility.

3) My unofficial this-is-your-position-in-a-nutshell:

This is "notifiable" work. Legally you must:

either submit a Building Notice to your LABC in advance, just like you would for any other type of work which came under the Building Regs

or have the work done by an electrician who is able to self-certify compliance with the Building Regulations.


OOI - where did you get the idea that Part P just meant Bathroom Zones?

 

[bpowell555]

I hadn't realised Part P came in already.

OOI - where did you get the idea that Part P just meant Bathroom Zones?

Something else I'd read - just being stupid I guess.

So, bit of a cash cow for the trade then eh?

Though of course there is no way of knowing when the work was done?... Same goes for the hob and hood in the kitchen then right?

Thanks Again.

 

[kevplumb]

part p cos the toilet is in there

oh **** thats part pee

 

[ninebob]

One thing that doesn't appear to have been mentioned yet is that the power for your towel rail couldn't come from a light switch anyway, even if if was low powered enough to run from the lighting circuit. A light switch only has live and switched live connections and you're going to need a neutral...

 

[andy]

One thing that doesn't appear to have been mentioned yet is that the power for your towel rail couldn't come from a light switch anyway, even if if was low powered enough to run from the lighting circuit. A light switch only has live and switched live connections and you're going to need a neutral...

it mighjt be that person who thinks its OK to put a fan between live and switched live...

 

[basic]

that the socket mentioned in the original post which was situated I believe opposite the bathroom could be used say to allow a fused spur into the bathroom under floor boards into bathroom, etc etc.

Well that is as long as the original socket is not a spur

Would that be a possible solution

 

[ninebob]

that the socket mentioned in the original post which was situated I believe opposite the bathroom could be used say to allow a fused spur into the bathroom under floor boards into bathroom, etc etc.

Well that is as long as the original socket is not a spur

Would that be a possible solution

Yes, IMHO that would be the ideal solution, subject to the usual caveats about RCD protection, bonding etc etc.

 

[bpowell555]

The bathroom floor is marbled as well and I'm not sure what's underneath them. The floor in the hall is stone tiled though I could conceivable chisel a groove in the grout?

The socket across the hall is the only one between the kitchen and the patio doors - bathroom is in an extension - does that mean its unlikely to be on a spur and could have a spur run off it?

So: spur off socket, run through grout - hmm where's me kango - drill through wall and marble and stick a box on the wall. Plug in rail.

Job done? And I can't do it myself

If I prepare it I could get an electrician in to join up the wires no?

Thanks again.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

The bathroom floor is marbled as well and I'm not sure what's underneath them. The floor in the hall is stone tiled though I could conceivable chisel a groove in the grout?

No - that won't do - the cable has to be properly buried and properly protected.

The socket across the hall is the only one between the kitchen and the patio doors - bathroom is in an extension - does that mean its unlikely to be on a spur and could have a spur run off it?

No way of knowing.

If I prepare it I could get an electrician in to join up the wires no?

If you're going to use an electrician, get him in first, and have him sort out where, and how you'll connect to a circuit and run cables etc, and get him to spec the digging/chasing/drilling.

 

[bpowell555]

ban-all-sheds,

thanks for the advice. The Force is strong with you.



So now I guess I need to find an electrician...

Thanks all.

 

[bpowell555]

Anyone do the Tunbridge Wells area?